not quite right...

[Tman1]

Re: not quite right...

Here's a picture of the crumb.. a little dense for my liking, but maybe that has to do with the whole wheat?

[texassourdough]

Re: not quite right...

Hi Tman!

That bake looks pretty good. I like the crust thicknesss. Without knowing the flours and % each and hydration, it is pretty hard to generalize on the crumb.

If it is 20-30% WW the crumb looks pretty good (and I am guessing that is about right from the color of the crumb, I would welcome correction!). You should be able to get a more open crumb with higher hydration and perhaps using a higher protein white flour to give you a stronger gluten web. If it is higher WW than that you may have a hard time doing much better.

The unevenness of the cut surface and the look of the crumb suggests the bread was pretty moist when cut and suggests the internal temp may have been low by my standards - in the 203 to 205 range. (Could be the knife also.) A few more degrees might or might not be better - while I prefer to bake my lower WW breads to 211 or so, I like whole wheat a bit moister so...you may not want to go very far but a few more minutes would, I think be good.

Nice looking loaf. Ought to make really good sandwiches! You are close!
Jay

[Tman1]

Re: not quite right...

Wow!

Baked temp was 203-204.
My wife thought it would be great for sandwiches too.
The cut is indeed off, but I am amazed you could see that... probably the knife as the loaf was cooled when that picture was taken.

You're off on the WW content.. at best, there is 10%. Since I was lumping different stuff in, that's my best guess. I would say that the dough had low hydration, so I can follow your comments about getting it moister.

I feel very good that you think this one was lose! Thanks!

[texassourdough]

Re: not quite right...

At 10%WW you should be able to get a more open crumb without jumping through hoops. Hydration will help. I don't know how much handling you do and timing after you start bulk fermentation. Directionally moving the handling earlier in the process, including final loaf forming will tend to give you a more open crumb. If you are only 10% your crust color doesn't look overproofed so you can probably go a bit longer on the final proof also.

But the good news is you got a good result. That can be a base for tweaking toward what you want. Whatever you do, don't change too many things at once, nor by too much. If you did your final loaf form at say 4 hours try 3 1/2. If you proofed the final loaf 3 hours, give it an extra half hour. Or...increase the hydration by 2 percent. But don't change all three or it could get confusing. (Okay, they are all minor enough you could try doing all three and you will probably be closer to the loaf you want, but....it will be harder to judge what the next increment(s) should be. That is why I would suggest keeping it simpler..)

WRT internal temp, I was pretty sure it was below 205. The crumb cut had the look of a relatively wet , soft crumb. As you go above 205 the crumb gets harder/dryer and glassier/translucent. I like the higher temp for the caramalization and roasting of the flour in the crumb. However...when in Los Angeles last month my wife and I had sandwiches at the La Brea Bakery and Silverton finishes her sandwich bread relatively low. Caught me by surprise but it made a great sandwich! Nothing right or wrong. All in what you want.
J

[Tman1]

Re: not quite right...

I was going to write notes on my computer, but since I started here, I figured I should just keep it here. I bought a Pampered Chef pizza stone for ($8!) at the thrift store yesterday and it looks like it's never been used.

So, I need to use a basic recipe and get good at that.

32 oz KA BFB flour
24 oz water
.6 oz salt
1.5 tbsp ADY (Red Star, that's our usual brand)

Upon mixing it seemed to dry, so I had to add 3 tbsp of water to get the proper consistency. I'll let it sit on the counter for 2-4 hours, then into the fridge. A (big) part of me wants to do it in the WFO (Since I haven't fired it since turkey day!), but I think I'll stick with the kitchen oven for now.

[Tman1]

Re: not quite right...

Well, I'm not sure how it went. The Pampered Chef stone I bought cracked into 3 pieces during the first bake. On their website it says it can take 450, but your not supposed to warm it. I suspect the temperature shock of a 'cold' dough was too much for it. I don't quite get why you would use a stone if you can't preheat it? (In my opinion the stone is FOR the baking.)

I'm still nowhere near the baking times in the recipes. I did 3 loaves with the first one pretty good. It had a dark crust, with a very slight burnt taste, but tasted okay overall. The second loaf was over-proofed, and didn't rise well. I actually haven't cut into that one yet. The third was the best in my opinion. It was the smallest of the 3 boulles, and had a faster baking time. I would say it still seemed a little dense, at least for the crumb that I would really want. My wife really liked it and we made some sandwiches with it, of which she enjoyed greatly. I'm back on the hunt for another stone, but this time will be staying away from Pampered Chef. I was really hoping that would work, but I guess I'm going to have to spend the money, or just move my experiments to the wood-fired oven since that's the end goal anyways.

[splatgirl]

Re: not quite right...

WHY the pampered chef stones say not to preheat is beyond me. Not doing so defeats the purpose no matter what you'd be using it for--and yes, thermal shock. What a joke.
Obviously, you need to preheat for it to have any benefit...

Until recently, I was using two pampered chef stones that were ~20years old. I remember getting them back when the baking stone was basically a "new" invention, and I think PC was one of the first to sell them. When I started getting really serious about baking bread they eventually both succumbed to thermal shock secondary to the various methods of creating oven humidity.
FWIW, back in the day they came with a lifetime replacement warranty. Dunno about that now.

For boules, a cast iron combo cooker works better anyway. And a cast iron griddle can do dual duty in place of a stone. Beyond that, a corderite kiln shelf or a Fibrament stone will be more durable than those suzie homemaker stones.

[Tman1]

Re: not quite right...

Yesterday we fired up the temporary WFO. We used Reinhart's classic dough, and his country classic dough. I ended up with some extra balls and baked off 3, and one I left as a small boule and baked it. This was perhaps my best ever bread. It lacked a true crispy crust (due to no steam), but the crumb was great.