Pain a l'ancienne

[james]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

Way to go Dave,

The ultra high hydration dough is a goopy mess, but it sure tastes great. I really like the way the crust develops.

Jim, how does crust carmelization work? Sometimes I get that golden crust that shines, and other times it's an ordinary dull brown. How do you control that?

James

[CanuckJim]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

James,

I think you'll find that retardation helps break out grain sugars, and that's what caramelizes on the crust for those shiny bits. If you flour is not quite fresh, or the gluten percentage is low, you'll probably get dusty brown rather than shiny golden. Lots of variables here, though, including baking at too high a heat or too little steam.

Jim

[asudavew]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

I am new to this steam technique.

When I cooked these loaves I misted water into the oven with a hand sprayer for about 10-12 seconds. Then I put the loaves in and shut the door.

I had a therm probe stuck in one loaf and took them out when the internal temp hit 205f.

I never vented the oven during cooking. The crust was crunchy on the outside and the bread moist and chewy on the inside.

Am I using the right technique?

BTW the oven was about 550f.

Thanks

Dave

[gjbingham]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

I have couple of questions on this one....

I was going to bake this recipe from the Bread Baker's Apprentice today. The weather was un-Godly. I decided to put it off for a day and let the retarded dough sit in the 'fridge, as it's supposed to be clear tomorrow. So anyway, my questions:

- How the heck to you pronounce the name of this bread? My French is lousy. Can anybody give me a phonetic pronunciation?

- My recipe calls for parchment paper into the oven, rather than trying to move the loaves by hand (I presume). Do you recommend this in a WFO?

- The recipe calls for turning the oven down in mid-bake from 500/550 to 400 (450?). How much time in a 500/550 degree oven do you recommend. (sorry Jim, if it's in your e-book. My wife's got the laptop with your recipes on it).

Thanks in advance.
George

[Dutchoven]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

The pronounciation part has me confused as well...maybe there is a French speaker on the forum that could help...or Jim maybe!!!...
I have used parchment in the WFO with good results...it chars and gets very fragile but you can do it...I have sent some of these really wet rustic loaves into the oven on pans and then when I vent the oven I remove the loaves from the pans and place them on the hearth...
as far as the baking time...at 550 it should be in the 12 to 15 minute range...20 minutes at most
Best
Dutch

[james]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

How many folks use parchment in their WFO? I just wrestle with the wet dough using lots of flour and an aluminum peel -- though that may explain my odd-shaped loaves. Maybe we need a poll. Parchment or no?

My guess is that a light baguette in a 550ºF oven will be ready in about 10 -12 minutes.

We need photos to savour the moment. It's a great recipe.
James

[Inishta]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

How the heck to you pronounce the name of this bread? My French is lousy. Can anybody give me a phonetic pronunciation?


George

Pahn-ah-lawn-see-n ............................

[CanuckJim]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

Dutch, James, George,

Inishta has it about as close as it gets for a phonetic pronunciation, though my French is rusty enough. I agree that at 550, these breads should take about 12 minutes. Use good steam at the beginning and vent halfway through. Dave, venting the steam produces a better and more caramelized crust, but this is a matter of experimentation and taste.

I do bake them at higher temps, in the 650 to 700 range, where they take about 7 to 8 minutes. Conventional blade slashing does not work with such a wet dough, so, as Reinhart sort of recommends, I use kitchen shears held at a very shallow angle to snip triangles down the length. Sometimes works beautifully, sometimes not. I never use parchement paper for these loaves, but no particular reason beyond extra steps. Instead, using a fine meshed seive, I thoroughly but thinly coat the peel with brown rice flour. Like pizza, speed is an issue. These are rustic loaves, so I don't worry all that much about shaping. This is a very popular bread; far superior, in my opinion, to conventional baguette dough, so maybe a video clip is in order? It can be tricky to make and form, or at least it takes practice.

Jim

[gjbingham]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

Good information from all. Thanks for the lesson.

I've got a perforated metal tray, shaped to hold three loaves. I got it at King Arthur Flour a few years back. I think I will try that for three of the loaves and a peel for three. We'll see what happens.

George

[edschmidt]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

Ive tried this recipie, as well as the no-kneed recipie, and both times came out with beautiful loaves. With that said I was a little put off by the crumb and was wondering if it wasnt right, or if it just wasnt what I am used to. I did have the large irregular air pockets, but the moisture level was very high. I would say that it was undercooked except the internal temp was 200deg. and it wasnt doughy. The first time I made the Pain the crumb was almost clear. Is this something that I need to get used to, or am I doing it wrong?

[CanuckJim]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

ED,

The internal temp was too low. You should be looking for at least 205 F. You need a full bake with these, so don't be afraid to put them back on the hearth, near the door, once you've reached the right internal temp to set and color the crust a bit more. These breads have a creamy texture and the interior surface of the pockets is shiny and possibly tan in color. These are all good things that show the gluten has been properly developed.

George,

You'll find that the bottom crust develops more fully and differently if you bake directly on the hearth.

Jim

[gjbingham]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

Jim,
Thanks for the suggestion. Too late for bake number two, but I'm not giving up. The four loaves baked in the tray were definitely inferior to those baked directly on the hearth. The bread was really sweet and had big big holes, but once again, the oven cooled off to quickly. I think there's still H2O in the vermiculte insulation below the floor, perhaps wicking in from all the rain we've had lately...... My best guess anyway.

I was kind of pissed off, so I refired the oven for an hour and did 3 loaves of ciabatta about 20 -30 minutes after cleaning the oven of coals. I burned the heck out of them. The oven was still hot enough 3 hours later to make my next load of firewood smoke, so moisture situation may be improving.

I'll keep trying!

G.

[BaconGrease]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

After nursing my yeast culture for the last 6 weeks or so I think it's finally coming around. I had to put this loaf back in the oven as it wasn't quite done, but as usual didn't get a true final pic. The taste is definitely on the sourdough range though. Also it took pretty much overnight to double in size.

[Dutchoven]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

Grease
You should repeat this and take a picture of the loaf sliced...
How did you grow your culture?
Inquiring minds would like to know I'm sure!
Dutch

[BaconGrease]

Re: Pain a l'ancienne

The culture survived by feeding every 2-4 days, straight up flour and sugars