Sourdough in Dinos WFO

[egalecki]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

I use a heavy pan and boiling water for my steam. Sometimes I spray the oven walls, but usually what I do is put more water in the pan after about 1 1/2 minutes or so.

I use a stone on the top rack and one on the bottom- I think it gives me better top crust. Well, actually I use a stone on top and 1/2 inch quarry tiles cut to fit my oven rack on the bottom. Works the same and cost a lot less!

Tomorrow I'm going to try the bread I have in the fridge- we'll see how the long retard works out for flavor. I've never had much luck with them, but people swear this works.....

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Thanks Jamie, I checked out Sandors book and it looks really interesting. I'll pick up a copy soon. His website looks like fun too.

Elizabeth: I think I'll also add some water to the pan after a couple of minutes. It's so dry here in Southern California it couldn't hurt. I'm going to do Reinharts Basic Sour Dough again starting tomorrow (2 day process) using a firm starter. Saturday will be baking day and I'll do it in the kitchen oven, not the wfo so I should be able to control the temps and misting better. Let me know how your refridg-retard went. -Dino

[egalecki]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Actually, they were pretty good. The white dough rose well and had a really nice open crumb, and good flavor. The rye didn't rise as well (but it doesn't always anyway) but the flavor was quite good, even though it didn't have that sourdough tang I like. The crumb was good too. The recommended 1 pound size loaf was a little small, though, so I think I may double the amount of dough I make up and use 1 1/2 pounds at a time.

Since I've done it the way it says once now, I'm going to go ahead and tinker with them. I think the next rye will get a little sourdough in it and the white will get some whole wheat flour or maybe some seeds or something. And they'll both get more water than they have. I haven't figured up the BP, but they both could do with more hydration and still be good.

I also put another pan in the bottom of the oven and then added the second water to it- worked even better than just putting more water in the same pan.

It's always easier to control the home oven, but the wfo gives better crust for me even so... but my oven is crappy. Next house I get a different oven!

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Elizabeth, how much rye was that bread vs regular flour or starter? Just curious. Everyone seems to say rye adds a nice and unique flavor to breads. Also, did you use rye flour or a coarse grind (as in pumpernickle grind rye)? I've found so many interesting recipes with rye, I'll try it soon.

[egalecki]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

I think it was 4 c regular and 3c rye. I can only get one kind of rye flour here- Hodgson's Mill, and it's a fairly coarse flour, but not dark. I'd say it's medium.

Rye adds a flavor and a texture that are unique, IMHO. It changes the way the dough feels- it tends to be stickier. And I find that it bakes up better slightly underproofed- but only slightly. The one thing I really miss in this recipe is the sourdough flavor, so I'm going to tinker with adding a little to it. Jay, any ideas about how to go about putting sourdough into a dough you put into the fridge and leave for days?

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Here is my last attempt. It was in my kitchen oven. I retarded it overnight. It has 5-10% rye in it. It got this AMAZING caramelization on it. You can see the dark and bubbled sugars on the crust from the Mailard effect. And the taste was great. BUT, I think my oven was too hot and I got little to no oven spring. It was really disappointing and frustrating since it tasted so good. Perhaps I needed to re-fold it or rather re-shape since the dough did not look to come alive after 3-4 hour out of the fridge? The yeasts needed longer at room temps? I dunno. I may try the same recipe with a pinch of commercial yeast next time and not just my own starter.

[heliman]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Dino - they look sensational!!!!

Did you use the BBA as a reference to make them?

This is definitely inspiration for others...

Rossco

[egalecki]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

The crust does look great. I don't know about the oven spring, though. Was it good inside? It's hard to tell in the last picture. If the texture inside was ok, and you didn't get good spring, it might have been a little overproofed.

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

I think Jay texassourdough is testing us to see if we can bake bread without him .

Rossco, I did use Reinharts BBA. I may try it again this weekend in the WFO this time since I'm firing it up pizza. I've got end of season tomatoes and pretty good basil plants to use. Yahoooo.

Man, I wish I knew Elizabeth. The crumb was a little dense and parts seemed like they wanted more bake time though the crust and bread tasted great. I think you're right since natural sourdough levains should rise 2/3rds, not double. I'll get it right, it's awfully fun trying.

[egalecki]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

yes it is fun trying. And not-as-good bread makes very good croutons or breadcrumbs!

I seem to remember that someone suggested baking retarded sourdough straight out of the fridge- no waiting for it to warm up. Why don't you give that a try next? I'd try it myself but I just don't have much time these days- I like my new job but geez, it seems to take all my time!

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Hey Dino, great looking crust. I bake my sourdough straight out of the fridge. I never get the same oven spring in a conventional oven...much better in the WFO. I think the regular ovens just loose too much heat when you open the door. Are you spraying water in there? That is also key to oven spring.

Drake

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Thanks Drake and Elizabeth. I'd like to say I'll try that: baking the sourdough right from the fridge but I messed up my 2 recipes yesterday afternoon. I retarded the BULK dough overnight in the fridge. I just opened up my BBA book cuz I'm baking the Basic Sourdough pg 233 AND the Poilane-Syle miche pg 242 this afternoon before pizza in wfo. I now realize BOTH recipes call for forming the boule BEFORE overnight retarding.

AMMENDED: I checked out the recipe book again. I did it correctly Hew! the firm starter gets the overnight and the loaves bake after 4 hours but could ALSO be retarded but not necessary.

Either way, I've got my new Osh Yard Spray just for dowsing my WFO with H2O so I'm hoping for a really moist oven.

[Dutchoven]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Dino
Our experience here is that the wild yeasted breads don't perform as well when they are retarded overnight. We generally use a colder started and cold water to allow for a longer fermentation and proof. As you get better at coordinating the oven and the bread loaves you should try to bake them without the overnight in the fridge. In any event your results are good and seem to be improving.
All the best!
Dutch

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Thanks Dutch, I'll try that on my next batch. It would be easier sometimes to allow for just 1 day to prep, rise and bake occasionally. I feel I've played around enough with 100% sour levain. I'm going mixed yeasts next time.

Here are my loaves from last night. My 2nd try in the WFO and 1st time I:
-loaded oven brick temps to 700 deg.
-cleaned out the coals.
-mopped floor and closed door to redistribute heat for 20 minutes.
-re-mopped, slided the loaves in on baking parchment
-spraedy the heck out of the dome top/sides with my garden sprayer (again thanks Elizabeth) until the steam almost burned my hand.
-shut the door but tilted it out a minute later for the sprayer wand to give it another burst.

The sour-doughs rose nicely, decent color, more open holes in the crumb than last time. Burnt the bottom on 1 so I need to spread the fire better, earlier. The 50% wheat Miche is a bit dense (on par for whole wheat?) but nice flavor. Both will improve in flavor in a couple of days, I'm sure. Next time it'll be even better! Cheers, Dino

[Dutchoven]

Re: Sourdough in Dinos WFO

Dino
Good job! You will get better and better with each bake. As for the WW bread, it is more dense usually due to the bran. It tends to tear the gluten strands that normally are expanded by the yeast activity and then later the water vapor. As for the spraying of the oven, unless you are baking a small amount, the second bit of spray may not be necessary. Steaming the oven tends to steal a bit of heat energy and doing it even just a minute later and IMHO would cause an entirely differenet temperature profile. My suggestion might be(and it is entirely a matter of personal preference)is to bake a bit longer(the leaner breads generally don't brown until they get to about 200F and the flour begins to roast) and to vent the steam about halfway through(this allows the oven to finish the bake a bit drier and give the crust a bit more snap). As for the burnt bottom, just allow a bit more time for the temps to equilibrate...don't rush it and don't fear your oven will give you back the heat.
Keep up the good work!
Best
Dutch