Oven Build in SC

[pappap]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Have you found the ingredients for homebrew? Please advise me if you are having difficulty. I will be glad to help a fellow South Carolinian.

[videts38]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Well, took care of the hydrated lime. Ordered it online unfortunately, but didn't want to chance a bad ingredient in the mortar. Called Sakrete and Quikrete and neither would devulge the percentage of portland or lime in the Type N or S masonry cement or mortar.
Anyway onward!
I'm headed out to buy the foundatiion materials this week. Since I'm kinda confined in the back yard I'll be mixing my own. Bought a used mixer for some help! Does anybody know the better material to use...the high strength cement (5000) or the crack resistant cement. The CRC is a little extra $$ but is it worth the money? I did save some $ on the stand blocks, I was able to score some used older blocks. There not as pretty as new ones but the price is right and I figure for the most part they will not be exposed.
Thanks for the help so far. Alot have helped more than they know with their posts on their builds.
LOTS OF READING AND LOTS OF THINKING!!

[deejayoh]

Re: Oven Build in SC

I sympathize with your search. My local box stores don't carry lime either.

I finally found it at the local concrete monopoly( well, at least it seems like they are a monopoly based on truck count). Anyway, they have a small storefront that is only open during impossibly inconvenient hours that sells concrete finishing supplies, tools, etc. I asked at the front desk and they had lime and cement in 5/10/20 pound bags. For me, it's really been a great way to go. For around $5 I get 10 lbs cement and 5 lbs lime. Perfect. I am sure it is more expensive by the unit, but I really don't want 80 lbs of this crap hanging around when I am done!

So have you checked all the concrete suppliers? I would think somebody has to be serving the masonry trade.

[videts38]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Thanks Tscarborough and Gulf,
All this info is great and very useful, and much appreciated.
Now if I can only find some double hydrated lime locally.

[Tscarborough]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Type X mortar is a strength designation. Generally, the only difference between a Type N or Type S masonry cement is how much is in the bag. There will be no difference in WHAT is in the bag, just how much of it there is.

There are 2 ways to make a masonry cement:

A special blend of cement is produced with NO lime. It uses a different grade of clinker and the difference between a bag of N and S is 5# of material. N will weigh 70#, S will weigh 75#(+/-). When mixed with an equal amount of sand, they will each produce the designated strength.

The second way is to use Portland cement and Type S lime (the designation of lime is separate and not connected to the designation of Type S masonry cement*). In this type there is a difference in the amount of ingredients and the bag will weigh approximately the same, and each type, when mixed with the appropriate amount of sand will make the designated strength mortar.

Both work equally well, and to find out if it is a portland/lime masonry mix or a masonry cement mix, you can check the product data sheet.

*Type S lime is a double hydrated lime, and is ready for use in mortar, unlike "normal", "shit-house" or agricultural lime which must be slaked.

[Gulf]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Back when I was searching for all the ingredients I did some searching and found enough on the web and this site to convince me. Searching today I find where most sites are speaking about Type N Mortar. Mortar refers to the mix after the sand has been added.
Mortar is usually made on site by the pros who supply their own sand from local sources.
Make sure, while you are talking to the Quikcrete and or Sakcrete that you are enquiring about Type N Masonry Cement. I think that you will find that Type S Masonry cement has half the lime that you need.
I hope this helps

[videts38]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Thanks Gulf,
I've been trying to find out what Type N and Type S are comprised of but I haven't found anything on line. I will be on the help line with sakrete and Quikrete tomorrow and hopefully I'll get a handle on it.

[Gulf]

Re: Oven Build in SC

OK back to confusion. I'm gettin conflicting information. One says it's 50/50 portland/lime, another says 2 to 1 portland/lime. I went to a couple sites but could not find any thing CONCRETE on the ratio.(LOL) It ain't easy!! So is Type N the one needed to add 3 sand, 1 fireclay?

Type N masonry mix: It is the general purpose most common mortar mix.
The Forno Bravo recipe is:
1 part portland
1 part hydrated lime
3 parts sand
1 part fireclay

To substitute:
2 parts Type N masonry (mortar) cement mix
3 parts sand
1 part fireclay

I hope this helps, but please do a little more searching on the web to verify, and wait until a few more chime in on the subject .

[videts38]

Re: Oven Build in SC

OK back to confusion. I'm gettin conflicting information. One says it's 50/50 portland/lime, another says 2 to 1 portland/lime. I went to a couple sites but could not find any thing CONCRETE on the ratio.(LOL) It ain't easy!! So is Type N the one needed to add 3 sand, 1 fireclay?

[Gulf]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Eureka, I found what I needed, Type S cement (50% portland/50% Hydrated Lime)......

I believe that Type S is 2 parts portland and 1 part hydrated lime .
Here is a site which breaks it down in to the 5 types.

[videts38]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Eureka, I found what I needed, Type S cement (50% portland/50% Hydrated Lime). I big thank you to everybody for their help. I tell you what though, if I stressed this bad just trying to find the necessities, wait till I start the build!!! OMG!!

[Gulf]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Just kicking this in . A bag of ordinary brick mortar (Type N) is 1/2 portland and 1/2 hydrated lime.

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Hey Steven,
I'm baffled that you can't find Hydrated type-s lime at a big box store. It's pretty common here in southern california. Also, I'm not convinced that ag lime is what you want. I did come across this interesting article that suggests that in a lime/sand mortar the presence of portland blocks the natural carbonation (hardening) of lime.

Masonry Magazine: Lime Mortar

John

[videts38]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Again I'm a little confused to say the least. I have found this product, lee's double strength hydrated lime (Lee Double Strength Hydrated Lime?, 50 lb. - 5027659 | Tractor Supply Company) (LIMESTONE). It does not say it is a Type"S" but again I'm not sure. The second link mentions masonry. I couldn't find my camera connector to attach the picture of the bag (this link shows the product) but the chemical make up on the bag reads as follows:

Minimum Guaranteed Chemical Analysis
Calcium (ca)- 29%
Magnesium (mg)- 16%
Calcium Oxide (CaO)- 40%
Calcium Hydroxide (Ca(OH2)- 53%
Magnesium Oxide (MgO)- 26%
Magnesium Hydroxide (Mg(OH2)- 38%
Maximum Moisture Content- 1%
Total Calcium Carbonate Equivalent (CCE)- 137%
Eff. Neutralizing Value (ENV)- 133%
Relative Neutralizing Power (RNV)- 135%
Effective Calcium Carbonate Equivalent (ECCE)- 134%
Index Zone- 100 or more
Derived from Dolomitic Limestone- F 1358

and I'm trying to compare it to this:

Parameter Type S
Calcium & Magnesium Oxides (nonvolatile basis), min. %- 95%
Carbon Dioxide (as-received basis), max. %- 5%
Unhydrated Oxides (as-received basis), max. %- 8%
Plus 30 Mesh Residue, max. % on, (or no pops or pits)- 0.5%
Plasticity (Emley Units), min.- 200
Air Content - Minimum (%)
Air Content - Maximum (%)- 7%
Water Retention (%) min.- 85%

I'm not a chemist but doesn't this add up to more than 100% (LOL)

So my question since this is all Greek to me- are there any chemist out there (LOL)!!
Anyway I'm on a quest for answers!! And some Type "S" lime which I'm finding hard to locate

Thanks All

[videts38]

Re: Oven Build in SC

Thanks John and Deejayoh,
I struggled half a day to try to find the (proper) lime to use for the home brew. I have a hard time believing no one carries it. HD have it on their web site but not in the stores and it can't be delivered!! Can't figure that one out. The surveyors were here today to make sure there are no power or cable lines were I'll be laying the foundation. So time to start "diggin" this week.
I do plan on putting a 3" vermicrete under the IFB. I'm going with more is better.
I received my firebricks and ceramic insulation yesterday. I'm getting all the ducks in a row before I start. I found 3" bricks and 2" ceramic blankets. I'm hoping this will save me a few steps (courses). Anyway off to the Tractor store to compare the lime table to the product I found.
Again A big thanks for the info guys.