Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

[kebwi]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

If I may geek out briefly, assuming a relatively good seal around the door, there would be little matter-transfer, so any pressure change would be the result of temperature changes, not actual matter influx or outflux. If it continued to heat up, the pressure would go up. If it started to cool down, the pressure would drop (not to be confused with a vacuum, which is not merely a lack of pressure but a lack of matter).

I think you and Tscar are basically right. The temperature would begin to drop, thus the gases in the oven (mostly hot air) would loss their pressure as exerted against the walls and door, thus the exterior pressure would in fact "push" the door onto the oven more aggressively than in an equalized scenario.

Okay, that makes sense to me.

Thanks.

[Wiley]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

Keith, I would suggest a CO2 fire extinguisher. They aren't cheap but a whole lot safer and easier to clean up should the need arise. I have a fairly large one I keep in case of a chimney fire (I heat with wood you may remember, and although I keep my chimney clean I believe in back up systems).

In the actual case of trying to put out a roaring WFO I would activate the extinguisher at least a foot from the entrance. As the temp of the exiting CO2 will less likely damage the bricks from that distance. If nothing else the fire guys will be pleased that you have a credible method of extinguishing the fire.

Hope this helps,
Wiley

[Tscarborough]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

I do it every time I use the oven, there is always still some fire going when I door it off.

[Grimaldi]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

Use your driest wood and build a fire...it's time to rodeo. This gal is pushing this issue to its conclusion.

I would assume your oven burns like a furnace after start up and all that will be visible to the Fire Chief will be waves of heat...just what you want them to see.

I would also take him aside and explain that the woman has mold issues and is trying to do everything in her power to deny it, including refusing to test.

When you are in the right, you fight.

[brickie in oz]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

I feel so bad for you not being able to enjoy your oven that you have built with love and patience..

Your fire chiefs seem to sold some sway, over here they would be told to go jump in no uncertain circumstances, unless of course if it was a total fire ban day.

[Stan]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

Come on Keith! We're rooting for you. Let us know what happens!

Stan

[SteveP]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

I read this entire thread and my blood pressure is very high now. I agree with RT, if this was happening to me, I'd probably lose my cool and probably do something stupid. I have never seen any ash residue from my oven that is noticeable. When I first build my oven, I was worried about the ash residue getting into my pool, but I have carefully looked at the surface of the water when the pool is not running and I don't see any hazy ash like film. I just cannot believe that this is happening to you. You must have some zen like qualities to you in order to remain this level headed and calm.

[dhs]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

I have a 10x10' WHITE tent/awning 10' away from my oven and it does not show any black residue on it - tiny black dots or otherwise. I have been using my oven once or more a week for a few months now and specifically looked at the awning this weekend because of this thread.

Good luck!

[gmokrzycki]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

I'm thinking artillary fungus. I have this on my house. It is caused by mulch that carries this fungus. It appear small, black, round, and slightly raised. Good luck and deliver her a pizza every now and again to mend relations!

[kebwi]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

Sorry I've been distant. Day job is taking a lot of my time these days. No major news except that our relationship has deteriorated to nonverbal communication. I intend to fire it up and deal with the fire department if and when they show up, but I'm not certain if I'll get a chance before my big planned Thanksgiving get together. I've got business trips and family travel on the weekends and these northern winters are so dark so early that I can't use the oven in the evening on weekdays very easily.

Thanksgiving for sure.

Just to be clear, she has two complaints. The spots on her house are, as far as I'm concerned, practically a solved mystery. They're artillery fungus or a similar looking mold (not that she'll hear of it, or get the spots professionally tested, burden of proof is on her as far as I'm concerned, even mold-removal professionals refuse to diagnose mold by sight alone, that's how absurdly wrong she is about all of this).

She also complains about soot settling on her roof and then washing off in the rain and getting the light-colored siding dirty. She showed me flecks of supposed ash collecting in puddles off the side of her house. I admit, they look more like flecks of ash than the stupid mold she was obsessing about. Of course, the way she phrases it is as "burning embers". Sigh. I even got a call from the fire marshal notifying me of a complaint that had been made against me pertaining to "burning embers" falling in a neighbor's house. The fire marshal wasn't taking sides, he was just notifying me of the complaint. Bottom line is, nothing will happen for or against until the fire department shows up as a result of a complaint. I hope they don't take her at face value and ask to see these burning embers. That would shut her up pretty quick.

...but the fire marshal also said that vague complaints of "bothersomeness" or basically valid, and of course much harder to fight, especially if they are phrased as a "health bother", like breathing or something. If she tries to go that route, they can tell me to put my fire out irregardless of whether I'm within emission limits or not depositing any measurable detritus on her house. It won't matter...course her husband smokes so *I* would know such an accusation was total bunk, but that's a different matter entirely.

At any rate, she hasn't even tried that yet. I'm hopeful that the firemen will think my oven is cool, will approve of its structure and chimney properties (and spark arrestor) and will look at her house and quickly conclude she's full of it.

I just won't have a chance to test of any this for quite some time. Too busy with other things.

On the topic of keeping fires low-smoke, I am somewhat concerned that the super-damp Seattle autumn is going to give me trouble. Even "cured", my firewood probably isn't "dry" in the conventional sense of the word. Everything's pretty damp right now. I'm not sure how much smoke my next fire will make. It's virtually inconceivable to keep any wood inside, my house is way too small. Not sure how that'll all play out.

[brickie in oz]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

So burn charcoal, no smoke or embers there.

[fxpose]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

Keith, I've been following this thread closely from the beginning and it has really ticked me off. I applaud you for keeping your coolness in the matter and dealing with it rationally.

For the time being if you just need to bring your oven to roasting temps I would also suggest using charcoal briquettes. This is no different than firing up a charcoal bbq grill or even a wood burning smoker right next to your oven.
I wondered if you had a large stick burner (wood burning smoker) instead of your wfo she still would have harassed you like this.
I wish you luck and fire up that oven for Thanksgiving.

[kebwi]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

Thanks. I admit, I had been curious about methods of reducing the startup smoke. Charcoal had never crossed my mind because I have absolutely no experience with it (I never would have thought that it was inherently less smokey than wood, they just seem like "burnable fuels" to me). I have mildly considered using gas in the early stages of startup to pump heat into the oven rapidly, then switch to wood at a hotter, later stage in the hopes of reducing smoke.

Of course, if charcoal really does make less smoke, it would certainly be a lot more feasible than gas.

All good suggestions. Another thing I want to try is just building my fire differently. I have greatly enjoyed the catharsis of building a massive funeral pyre and letting it go up like a bomb from the first match, but I might try doing something a bit more camping style, building a small fire and patiently adding wood to it over the duration of the burn.

Thanks.

Cheers!

[tfasz]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

Keith - Sorry to hear about the neighbor problems.

I just got a delivery of eastern Washington apple wood that appears well cured and really dry (have not used it yet as I just unloaded it this weekend). Your welcome to a trunk full of it if it can help you pass your Thanksgiving burning test.

Good luck!

[kebwi]

Re: Neighbor is complaining about soot damage

So I finally fired the oven up again for Thanksgiving. It has been weeks. I've been really busy at work and I have also been researching my options on this whole matter. It snowed heavily right before Thanksgiving which made it very easy to see and inspect any soot that my chimney produced. These photos show the area immediately under my chimney (literally on top of the oven). My hand is included for size references, the largest particles were a few millimeters across. There was definitely some deposition at this size scale several feet from my oven as well. I would imagine that this stuff settled out fairly close to the oven, but the truth is, I simply don't know what happened in my neighbor's yard.

My question is, do folks here find the photos shown to be acceptable or would you characterize this as an excessive chimney product?

I was burning a really clean fire. I kept the fire small and burned the wood down before adding new wood so it had very little opportunity to smoke heavily and I really believe it was one of the most smokeless fires I've ever run in the oven judging from my watching the chimney the whole time -- it just never made heavy smoke at all, yet I still got all these larger particles.

I just don't see how I could burn cleaner than I did and I still got the particles you see in the photos. Does anyone think this is just normal for a chimney? I'm not really sure what to make of it?

Thanks.