Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
Wow! You certainly created an interesting post. As for "stepping on my post" I don't mind at all. Your build has started a captivating thread with quite a few comments. I hope all the questions and comments are useful and you end up with a great oven.
Good luck and I will check back for additional posts.
Respectfully submitted,
Brian (brianventura)
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Building my Oven with a mix of plans
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
I plan on it being in the concrete as a structural additive when I add the perlite layer.
Bmwdiver, do you remember the range of repairs Salvo did?
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
Originally posted by david s View PostThe expansion off steel wire should be the same as the refractory, it is with concrete anyhow. Because the wire is on the outside it is likely to be in tension as the refractory expands and the wire is cooler. Once the wire heats it should go slack and probably stretch and therefore not return to it's original length leaving it useful for the first heating cycle only. This is what happens with kilns that are held together with threaded rod and angle iron. They need to be tensioned up from time to time, but you won't have this option and your wire is far more stretchy than 10mm rod.
I guess I was not clear enough. It will not be in tension nor will it be on the outside I plan on it being in the concrete as a structural additive when I add the perlite layer.
But after more research and the gracious input in this forum I'm making a few adjustments.
Thanks Gianni, your right I have a picture in my head of what I want I just need to figure out how to combine the ascetics I want with the integrity of the tried and true methods. After all salvo did make a living building AND repairing them. Repair being the key word.
I'll keep you all posted.
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
This build looks very risky.
If your heart is in building an oven like Salvo's, go forth and enjoy the build from your own hands. FWIW, I have yet to see a custom hand-crafted brick oven (like the ones built here) from any of the Italian oven sites I have visited. Rather, they all (including Stefano Ferrara's) appear like they were designed and built to be completed as cheaply and quickly as possible.
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
Originally posted by brickie in oz View PostThe steel wire will go slack at the first sign of heat and serve no purpose at all once slack.
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
I thought that if I encased the wire in the insulating layer of perlite and Portland cement that it would expand and not fully support but the structure would reinstated when the oven goes cold. After reviewing several failures with a tall soldier course the failures are after a hot cycle when the oven goes cold and shrinks.
Thanks for the input I'll look more closely at the possible effects, before I encase it with the light concrete.
I guess I just figured it would act the same as the re-bar that adds strength to a slab.
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
Ive never built a round oven so dont know, there are many on the forum who have.
I dont know if they used support bands or not?
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
Originally posted by brickie in oz View PostThe steel wire will go slack at the first sign of heat and serve no purpose at all once slack.
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
Originally posted by Bmwdiver View PostTThe Steele wire is to keep the course from tipping outward while the dome is being constructed, it is wrapped around the entrance bricks which are recessed into the floor. The wire will then be moved to the outside of the clay mortar and inside the insulating layer to provide additional support.
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
Risky I'm ok with. Doomed is not an option. I built up a sample hearth and plan on testing the integrity of it with a Baldwin machine I have access to. If the hearth doesn't hold up. I'll take a more well traveled path.
As far as the dome with no mortar, that's a challenge I placed upon myself the only payoff will be my satisfaction.
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
This build looks very risky. Eliminating the structural slab under the insulation seems inadequate, particularly if the 1/4" rods fail. Also, fitting together the entire dome with custom cut bricks without mortar sounds like a lot of work for little or no gain. Less than 5% of my interior dome has exposed mortar and the dome doesn't wear like the hearth does. Steffano Ferrano uses a similar method but doesn't custom cut all the dome bircks.
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
Welp, your plan to support the bottom of your oven seems counterintuitive to me. I surmise that the footprint of your stand is essentially supporting the circumfrence of your dome, and you are comfortable with the steel and vermicrete for a hearth.
I hope it works for you
Since you are an engineer, I'll leave it there and watch and learn....While sincerely wishing you godspeed with your oven build
Keep us in the loop so we can watch each step of the way : popcorn :Last edited by Lburou; 03-19-2011, 06:30 PM.
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
Originally posted by dmun View Post
I'm confused here. Your soldier course is going to be held up with a length of coat-hanger gage steel wire? What's the wire supported by? Is it anchored to anything?
And your quarter inch pieces holding up the whole oven? How are they moored into the base? When you're considering the forces of your oven, you should consider two things: Steel has a considerably greater coefficient of expansion than masonry in heat, and similarly, an oven subject to heat-up and cool-down cycles is an object in motion. It's not a static pile of masonry.
The 1/4" Steele bars are recessed into the block stand and captured on each end so that it can move freely but not come out. A 1/4" concrete board is on top of the bars and block stand. The perlite is on top of that.
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
I'm confused here. Your soldier course is going to be held up with a length of coat-hanger gage steel wire? What's the wire supported by? Is it anchored to anything?
And your quarter inch pieces holding up the whole oven? How are they moored into the base? When you're considering the forces of your oven, you should consider two things: Steel has a considerably greater coefficient of expansion than masonry in heat, and similarly, an oven subject to heat-up and cool-down cycles is an object in motion. It's not a static pile of masonry.
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Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans
Thanks David, I coated the Steele bars to prevent the rust.
I would agree that 1/4" is pretty thin and I would not have used it if the nominal span was 12" or so. But since the span where the load will be the greatest is a max of 5" I considered the risk low.
The largest span I have is the opening for the storage and it is dead center and only 16".
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