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Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

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  • #16
    Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

    Originally posted by Tscarborough View Post
    Homebrew is MORTAR, adding grogg makes it CONCRETE.
    Ahhh... this is useful information :-)

    Do people generally crush the brick themselves, or buy it that way? I guess it's better if it's crushed firebrick, but is that necessary?
    My oven on a pallet build thread

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    • #17
      Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

      The thermal co-efficient of expansion needs to be as close as possible to the matrix, so firebrick is very close, common brick is close enough. Hard stone aggregates or limestone are not.

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      • #18
        Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

        Thanks for that - appreciate it.

        How would you identify "common brick"? I guess the composition varies depending on where you are?
        My oven on a pallet build thread

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        • #19
          Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

          In what proportion do you add crushed brick to the homebrew recipe for a good concrete castable mix?
          My oven on a pallet build thread

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          • #20
            Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

            Hi folks,

            So far, I've come across a number of ciment fondu based castable recipes. Here is a summary:

            CIMENT FONDU?
            Grog / Sand / Ciment Fondu: 48 / 30 / 22%

            Refractory concrete mixing recipe | Heat resistant concrete ingredients for wood fired pizza ovens.
            Grog / Sand / Ciment Fondu: 43 / 29 / 29%

            Four ? pain romain en argile - Page 1 - Four ? pain romain en argile
            Grog / Wet self-harvested clay / Sand / Ciment Fondu : 47 / 20 / 20 / 13%

            My question is regarding adding clay - here they say only to add it to portland cement based castables. Can I / should I add clay to a ciment fondu based castable recipe? For me, it looks like the biggest cost will be getting grog... if clay can somehow reduce the volume of this I need it would be good... also, does it in any way increase the setting time?
            My oven on a pallet build thread

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            • #21
              Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

              The trouble with unfired clay is that it shrinks. If too high a proportion is added, casting shrinkage can create cracks in the casting over the mould unless the casting is free to shrink away from its mould.. Fired clay (grog) won't shrink, so does not have this problem, you can add a much higher proportion.
              Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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              • #22
                Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

                Thanks guys. Am I right in my understanding that mich used only sand to cast his shoestring dome? Is it possible to get away with this ?
                My oven on a pallet build thread

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                • #23
                  Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

                  The safest, strongest mix you can use for your oven is 5 parts fine grog (0 to 1ml) 1 part kiln dried sand (ie. block paving jointing sand) and 1 part cement fondue this mix will outlast any home brew style motar
                  link to my effort http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/7...art-20707.html


                  "95% reading this forum 5% building"

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                  • #24
                    Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

                    If your having problems finding grog this link is of a great company that sell it cheap and will dispatch to you in France they also sell fondue cheap hope it helps 25KG Fire Brick Grog to make Refractory Furnace Kiln Pizza Oven | eBay
                    link to my effort http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/7...art-20707.html


                    "95% reading this forum 5% building"

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

                      If you are only building a small oven, just go and buy yourself some castable refractory from your local refractory supplier. It is designed for castings on moulds, will not shrink, contains the correct burnout fibres, will cope with the temperatures fired to,will handle thermal shock well and mixes up to a good workable mix. Any recipe you come up with may work in some of these areas, but also may not work so well. For a large oven where the mathematics of volume start taking over the proprietary castable refractory starts to become an expensive option.
                      Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

                        Originally posted by david s View Post
                        If you are only building a small oven, just go and buy yourself some castable refractory from your local refractory supplier. It is designed for castings on moulds, will not shrink, contains the correct burnout fibres, will cope with the temperatures fired to,will handle thermal shock well and mixes up to a good workable mix. Any recipe you come up with may work in some of these areas, but also may not work so well. For a large oven where the mathematics of volume start taking over the proprietary castable refractory starts to become an expensive option.
                        I'd love to do that only I don't know of any refractable suppliers, never mind a local one! I haven't come across such a product in France at all!
                        My oven on a pallet build thread

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                        • #27
                          Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

                          Just try the link I sent you they stock all things refractory and will shop to you in France they are very helpful
                          link to my effort http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/7...art-20707.html


                          "95% reading this forum 5% building"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

                            Ship not shop ha
                            link to my effort http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/7...art-20707.html


                            "95% reading this forum 5% building"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

                              Thanks for that - appreciate it.

                              I can find chamotte here - it was hard to find and the best price I have is ?75 for 50kg. I guess it's not too bad compared to the price of buying a pre fabricated oven core.
                              My oven on a pallet build thread

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Ciment Fondu / Refractory Castable Question

                                thats about the same price it sells for here where there are numerious places selling it on the net so go for it what price did you get on the fondue cement?
                                link to my effort http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/7...art-20707.html


                                "95% reading this forum 5% building"

                                Comment

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