Welcome to Alternative Oven

[Laurentius]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

Really? Are you serious? Did he go "One toke over the line?"

[brickie in oz]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

You can not claim the pizza to be Neapolitian unless the oven is wood fired, Neapolitan Pizza--What is Neapolitan Pizza--History of Neapolitan Pizza Making and Eating Authentic Neapolitan Pizza - Ciao Italia

Talking to the banned members now?

[WoodFireOvens]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

Hi James,
I am very happy to respond to this thread as I have recently discovered an alternative pizza oven that is the closest version I have found to the traditional wood fired oven.
I have always been of the opinion that the traditional oven remains the best and only option to make a perfect Neapolitan pizza. Since then, I have discovered an alternative new generation oven, which has caused me to slightly change my mind. There may be another way to cook your perfect Neapolitan pizza because I found that these ovens are actually very similar to the traditional wood burning ovens. The only difference is that they use gas to produce heat instead of wood.

Advantages of Neapolitan pizza ovens that use gas
1) The new generation furnaces are far easier to use than the old ones. With gas ovens, you do not need to have all the experience or know all the tricks and skills in maintaining a constant temperature inside the oven, as you would with a wood burning oven. You simply need to set the temperature of the gas inside and it will remain at the temperature you set it at, for as long as you want.
2) The new generation Neapolitan gas oven cooks at exactly the same speed as a traditional wood burning oven because the temperature inside the oven can easily reach the 400 degrees specified by the strict Neapolitan rules of pizza making. Consequently, the quantity of pizzas you can produce using the new generation gas ovens is exactly the same as using the traditional wood ones.

3) The shape and form of the new generation oven is the same as the traditional one: dome shaped with a small opening at the front so you still keep the constant high temperatures inside, which is vital in the creation of pizza.

4) The pizza crust produced by the new generation oven has the same colour as those produced by a wood oven: nice, golden and pleasing to the eye.

________________________________

Disadvantages of Neapolitan pizza ovens that use gas

1) As for the taste of the final product, there is a slight disadvantage with the gas oven: the use of burning wood to produce heat not only creates the required temperature in the creation of pizzas inside the oven, it also gives a distinctive fragrance and flavour to the pizza which you cannot achieve using the new generation gas oven. Therefore in the matter of taste, the traditional wood burning oven beats the new generation gas version.

I wanted to clarify these few points because the restaurant where I have been based for the last 10 months , as part of my world wide tour inside the world of pizza, is located in the city centre of Manchester, uk. The use of wood burning ovens is not allowed in this location due to fire restrictions in the building. I heard that this problem is also affecting many of my friends and colleagues all over the world, therefore this new invention is the perfect solution for any pizzeria that is faced with restrictions on the use of traditional wood burning ovens. Upon weighing the advantages and disadvantages of these new generation gas ovens, I can say that they are definitely a much better option than the old gas shelf pizza ovens. Nowadays, many of the traditional oven makers in Naples are also producing these new generation ovens to meet the high demand worldwide due to licensing issues.

I hope you find this information interesting and useful , and I hope to be in contact in the near future.
Thanks
Chef Agostino Vitiello, owner of The World of Pizza :: Pizza Making, How to make Pizza, Pizza World, of Pizza ::

You can not claim the pizza to be Neapolitian unless the oven is wood fired, Neapolitan Pizza--What is Neapolitan Pizza--History of Neapolitan Pizza Making and Eating Authentic Neapolitan Pizza - Ciao Italia

[WoodFireOvens]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

Hi everyone, i was not aware of this area when i posted my oven photos, which are now in the photo gallery. All my ovens are built with clay or adobe. I am now building my first adobe oven with the fire under the hearth. Look forward to shareing and connecting with others who build other ovens, rather than kit ovens

[pizzaexpert]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

Hi James,
I am very happy to respond to this thread as I have recently discovered an alternative pizza oven that is the closest version I have found to the traditional wood fired oven.
I have always been of the opinion that the traditional oven remains the best and only option to make a perfect Neapolitan pizza. Since then, I have discovered an alternative new generation oven, which has caused me to slightly change my mind. There may be another way to cook your perfect Neapolitan pizza because I found that these ovens are actually very similar to the traditional wood burning ovens. The only difference is that they use gas to produce heat instead of wood.

Advantages of Neapolitan pizza ovens that use gas
1) The new generation furnaces are far easier to use than the old ones. With gas ovens, you do not need to have all the experience or know all the tricks and skills in maintaining a constant temperature inside the oven, as you would with a wood burning oven. You simply need to set the temperature of the gas inside and it will remain at the temperature you set it at, for as long as you want.
2) The new generation Neapolitan gas oven cooks at exactly the same speed as a traditional wood burning oven because the temperature inside the oven can easily reach the 400 degrees specified by the strict Neapolitan rules of pizza making. Consequently, the quantity of pizzas you can produce using the new generation gas ovens is exactly the same as using the traditional wood ones.

3) The shape and form of the new generation oven is the same as the traditional one: dome shaped with a small opening at the front so you still keep the constant high temperatures inside, which is vital in the creation of pizza.

4) The pizza crust produced by the new generation oven has the same colour as those produced by a wood oven: nice, golden and pleasing to the eye.

________________________________

Disadvantages of Neapolitan pizza ovens that use gas

1) As for the taste of the final product, there is a slight disadvantage with the gas oven: the use of burning wood to produce heat not only creates the required temperature in the creation of pizzas inside the oven, it also gives a distinctive fragrance and flavour to the pizza which you cannot achieve using the new generation gas oven. Therefore in the matter of taste, the traditional wood burning oven beats the new generation gas version.

I wanted to clarify these few points because the restaurant where I have been based for the last 10 months , as part of my world wide tour inside the world of pizza, is located in the city centre of Manchester, uk. The use of wood burning ovens is not allowed in this location due to fire restrictions in the building. I heard that this problem is also affecting many of my friends and colleagues all over the world, therefore this new invention is the perfect solution for any pizzeria that is faced with restrictions on the use of traditional wood burning ovens. Upon weighing the advantages and disadvantages of these new generation gas ovens, I can say that they are definitely a much better option than the old gas shelf pizza ovens. Nowadays, many of the traditional oven makers in Naples are also producing these new generation ovens to meet the high demand worldwide due to licensing issues.

I hope you find this information interesting and useful , and I hope to be in contact in the near future.
Thanks
Chef Agostino Vitiello, owner of The World of Pizza :: Pizza Making, How to make Pizza, Pizza World, of Pizza ::

[dmun]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

Octagon or Round and why?

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f2/w...s-round-2.html

[eatingmorefood]

Round or Octagon Pompeii Oven ?

hi all,
considering putting a pompeii style oven on top of the hearth,
Octagon or Round and why ?
thanks!
EatingMoreFood

[fornax hominus]

door opening

When I finished the inside of my 32'' I knew I had to get inside to chip off mortar and fill gaps etc. ... but I am a lifelong claustraphobe!!.. My door is 12''h x 16''wide.. I really didn't want to go in but my friendJ John said he had done it with his oven ,so .. I built a platform level with the floor and slid in on my back , one arm over my head ... yikes!!! [I also took the phone in ..just in case] I am not a big guy, but I found it very tight , hard even to chip away with one hand, well wih a lot of cursing I got the work done , inched my way out and went for a stiff drink . I called John , who blythfully informed me that he had ''chikened out''' and had not got more than his head in his oven .... sigh!

[doughforthesoul]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

Hi Archena,
My plan is to build a dome. From what I have been reading including Kiko Denzer's book, "Build your own earth oven" it should be fine. I am using refractory cast not brick. The more I read the more I think I might change the shape to more of a oval than round. And they say WOMEN CAN'T MAKE UP THERE MINDS!
Carol

[Archena]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

How deep is it going to be? You're doing a barrel, right? I don't think a dome would support itself with that shallow an arc.

[doughforthesoul]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

Thanks Wiley for all your help. This oven will be used just for the pizza business. I am going with a oven 48" wide by 16" high with a 16" opening. I am pretty excited to get started finally. Look forward to reading future post as they are always full of interesting information.
Take Care,
Carol

[Wiley]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

Hi Carol,
If I recall you were looking to build a WFO on either a trailer or on a truck. If that is still the plan (ie transportable WFO) then you are looking at a set of different compromises. All life is a series of compromises isn't it? To me some desirable characteristics of a transportable WFO would include: sturdy and able to take the abuse of transport on a highway; quick to fire so that you can start producing pizzas soon after arriving once you get to where you are going to sell; fairly quick to cool down... no need to be transporting a very hot WFO down the highway...safety here. Also it should be as light as possible and still do the job so you do not need a F350 or similar to haul it.

So your low dome WFO would seem to have alot of those characteristics. Cast refractory, so no bricks to work loose during transport (especially with a low dome design). The low dome would heat up quicker and the thinner refractory heat sink would not only heat up quicker than a thick one but would be lighter in weight and cool down sooner at the end of the day. No need for alot of expensive insulation or a high tech door. You probably will have to be sure all coals etc were out of the WFO before transport just for safety anyway.

The trade off are the compromises: one would think that cooking with reserve heat would be less possible. Less chance of successful second day baking because the refractory mass to hold the heat isn't there.

What it apears you are creating is a WFO that is a bit more specialized than most. Not that that is bad or wrong just what else you can bake in it will be more limited. So my thoughts on whether a roaster might have problems fitting thru such a low entrance are really less of a problem, although I still think one would want a wider entrance. The WFO you are describing is designed to produce pizzas (and a few other treats like calzone etc). It is not a slow cook pulled pork sort of WFO nor one that will bake bread although you still might be able to do so in a more limited fashion.

All our WFOs are a bit of an experiment some more than others. IMHO What you describe would work for the purpose you have indicated. Other than the wider door I have no other suggestions at this time.

Hope this helps,
Wiley

[doughforthesoul]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

Thanks Willey,
What would you suggest for height and width of opening?
Also any thoughts on 16" dome being to high to fire quick and retain heat? This is all still a big learning curve for me but I'm getting there! By the way I will be using refractory cast, 2" thick. Is that thick enough plus 2, 1" layers of insulating blanket,
then 2-3" of perlite concrete.
Carol

[Wiley]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

Carol,
I would consider going with a wider opening, 16 inches is on the small size especially at the end of any significant entry tunnel (for want of a better word, I'm using tunnel. I mean the transition area beneath the chimney from outside to actual inside the WFO) Being able to work and access the entire hearth area thru such a narrow opening will be more difficult if the tunnel is of any significant length.

Also depending upon what material you are building your WFO out of you may at some point need to make repairs to the interior of the dome. Unless you are a very petite person unaffected by claustophobia just getting inside would be difficult.

And 10 inches will be quite limiting in the height of a roaster that you will be able to easily place inside. I have a S.S. one that works well in my WFO. It easily fits a 14 pound turkey or a pork shoulder. I recently acquired a roaster that should easy accommodate a 20+ pound bird, however, I will have to remove and make a new handle for the top/lid as it is, it is too tall to fit inside my WFO. It might be worth while to measure the pots and roasters you are planning on using inside your WFO to see that they will easily fit.

Just some thoughts, hope they help,
Wiley

[doughforthesoul]

Re: Welcome to Alternative Oven

Well as they say (LOOK DOWN) okay I figured out how to post (I THINK)