Question about gaps in mortar joints

[Santino]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Neill, I wish I had the money to go all out like that and have a welder build something for me, but unfortunately I do not. Pretty much every idea for my oven has been "borrowed" from everyone else on this site and most of the pictures I've saved have been of the vent and chimney area. I'm hoping I make the right decision on the design. I will post some pictures I've saved for you guys to see and maybe you can point me in the right direction as to which one will work best for my oven. I guess this thread has unofficially become my oven build post, so I will continue to welcome any hints, tips, or criticism that you guys have for me.

Barry, thanks for leaving the pics for me to see. I hope my oven turns out looking great, but more importantly as I have stated before, I just want it to perform well and hopefully outlast me.

Here's where I'm at today. Just finished my 3rd course and will be on to the 4th tomorrow!

[BarryKeith]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

The vent and chimney are some of the easier part, so don't worry, you'll be fine. My brother built an oven about a year before me and it was beautiful. Mine didn't have all the perfect cuts like his but when I put my shell up around it, nobody could tell. His actually got a few cracks (nothing to worry about) and mine didn't. I actually used as close to full brick as I could for the keystone at the top. He peiced it all the way up to the top and that is where his cracked a little and also at the arch, the two places the heat seems to be the hottest. None of that matters because both of our ovens work great and will probably outlast a nuclear holocost.
Here is a pic at the acrh and a couple of the top. I only attach them so you can see I was not perfect but my oven works great.

[nissanneill]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

your decisions will be made on how you build your vent transition from the oven opening to the chimney base.
Mine was made so easily with a large rectangular area (don't make the mistake of having a slot to catch the smoke), which then funnels the smoke into the bottom of an 8" chimney. The smoke is hot and heads directly up the funnel and into the chimney without interference. The hotter the smoke and gasses are, the better it works with no smoke coming out of the front arch even when pushed with a leaf blower (except when aimed at the fire base and run full chat).
Even to get a welder to cut/fold and stitch the bits together will pay dividends!!!!
I have made several for local builders and Hendo's oven.

Cheers.

Neill

[Santino]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Thanks guys for the reassurance. Even though I am totally new to this, I am a perfectionist, so I want things to look aesthetically as good as possible. But the real reason I am asking for feedback is because I just want to make sure that structurally, everything looks strong. I am a foodie at heart so I am more concerned that my oven will work and be here for the long haul, not that it looks perfect, although that is what I'm striving for. I don't have any experience building anything and I have no one here to help me so you guys are my best resource, and I thank you very much for all your advice. Hopefully you won't mind if I ask several more questions throughout. I am definitely intimidated by the vent/chimney area and once I get there I know I will have a lot of questions.

[BarryKeith]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Looks good. It doesn't need to be perfect. You want the best fit possible, but it desn't have to interlock like puzzle pieces.

[nissanneill]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Santino,
this arch is into your oven and 90% of the brick that you see in the photos will be covered with your chimney void and entrance bricks.
Cutting the bricks that will be plainly visible of the front of your Pompeii can be cut accurately and you will probably need 1 or 2 more bricks to complete the arch when compared to the one in your photos.

Here's the finished product on the arch. What do you guys think?

This is fine, your next one will be better and you will be much more contented with the outcome. Anyway, it is only cosmetic and doesn't affect the oven's performance at all.

Cheers.

Neill

[dmun]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Your arch looks great. Don't obsess about perfect fit bricks.

[Santino]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Here's the finished product on the arch. What do you guys think? I know the mortar joints are wider than you probably prefer but it's standing and seems pretty strong...

[Santino]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Neill, here is what it looked like after I tried cutting earlier today. I marked a line from 1/2" in on one end and then took it the corner of the brick on the opposite side. As you can see, since I only drew the line on one side, the cut was not very accurate. The 2nd pic shows how much space is in between cuts where the blade can't reach. Are you suggesting to put a chisel in the cut and break it off and then cut off the part of the brick that is still there?

Cutting the bricks has been a challenging part of the build. The 7" blade was $15. The 10" blade was $70+, which didn't make a lot of sense to me. So it has been very difficult to cut because I end up having to do everything not only twice, but blindly, trying to match up the blade with the pencil line on top.

While I have some people looking at this thread that have been there, done that, how do my first 2 courses look?

[nissanneill]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Santino,

I tried to taper my arch brick to get it smaller at the bottom, but I realize since I only have a 7" blade, it's not going to work.

Mark your bricks accurately and cut as deep as your blade will go from the front. You should then be able to use a brick bolster (wide cold/brick chisel) to break the brick along your saw cut. You could also make a second cut from the back but may nt be necessary.If the back of the cut is rough, it won't be seen and will be filled with your mortar.
Accuracy in marking and cutting will make the difference between an average or professional job so spend that extra effort to get your front arch looking sweet.

Cheers.

Neill

[Santino]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Thanks for the quick reply. I am just finished my 2nd course today so I am going to attempt the dome arch tomorrow. Hopefully it will stay in place!

[Tscarborough]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

If you use the proper mortar, sure, it will work.

[Santino]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Ok, going back to what Barry was saying, I tried to taper my arch brick to get it smaller at the bottom, but I realize since I only have a 7" blade, it's not going to work. Can someone tell me if this configuration will work? I've seen plenty of people's houses with an archway that doesn't have a true keystone, but I don't know if that will work for my oven.

Thanks so much.

[Santino]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Neill, thanks for the reply. I'm definitely using the homebrew mortar. I might eventually get my hands on some refractory mortar for free soon, but I already bought my ingredients because I don't want to wait. Just laid my cooking floor yesterday so I'm very excited about pushing through to get this dome completed.

[nissanneill]

Re: Question about gaps in mortar joints

Santino,

Neil, it looks like you were gonna say something after the parenthesis but maybe forgot? Were you gonna say that if I use the poor man's mortar I'd be fine without firebrick shims?

Sorry to get back so late but that is correct. poor man's mortar is cheap, it fill large gaps cheaply and it is great. No cracking at all in mine so naturally, I'd recommend it.
If however you decided to use refractory cement, then I believe that you need 2 types for thin joints up to 2-3mm and another for the larger ones up to 10mm.Poor man's mortar can be used for all.

Cheers.

Neill