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  • deejayoh
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    Tracy - I don't have a picture of this - but I can tell you what I did.

    On the back side of my vent opening, I cut 5 bricks in an upside down "L" shape - they were about 5 inches wide at the top, and only about 2 inches wide at the bottom. I put them in so that the short leg of the "L" overlapped the inner arch of my oven, and the long leg became the back wall of my vent. That way I had a decent amount of surface area to add some strength to my vent arch, and it was wide enough to build the back transition for my vent pipe on top.

    Then I stuffed the CF rope into the opening from the back, Kaowool in the front.

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  • Gulf
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    Sorry Tracy,
    I can't help with a pic. My build transitioned in. I think I see what you mean. Your inner arch does not protrude outside of the dome very much. You may want to go up a course higher with your 14 X 5 vent square before starting a transition.

    This one (not to scale) shows it starting right on top of the outer arch. Going up vertical one more course or two would give you more room between the dome and the flu for insulation. If I am way off base from what you were asking just excuse my cartoon drawing .

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  • texman
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    Thanks for all the great answers. You guys give the right answers even when i dont ask the right questions.
    The outer arch is in. I have 14 x 5 vent and i am going with 7" triple wall. Went pretty good i think. i used the gauge to make sure the bricks were aligned correctly on the arch. Just a piece of wood the width of the brick cut to a point in the center. It really helps on lining up those arch bricks.

    Trying to figure out the vent now. i left a 3/8" gap(break) between inner/outer arch and the floor/entry. I ordered 3/8" ceramic rope and some Kaowool too. Since my flue will transition back towards the dome, I am trying to figure out how to have a thermal break there. Any one have any pics of that?
    Tracy
    Last edited by texman; 07-07-2012, 03:32 PM. Reason: pic correction

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  • Amac
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    Tracy - I am not sorry I put that small break there - but I am not sure I would have tried cutting bricks in situ to achieve it. I don't know to be honest what the performance improvement is since I haven't used it a lot. I did some measurements on the bricks inside and outside the steel with the IR and promptly mislaid them. Next time I'll post them so someone can do a comparison. As for appearance - after I dropped a brick down the flue there is a nice indentation there now to enhance that.

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  • GianniFocaccia
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    Thanks, Tom.

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  • Tscarborough
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    @John, no problem at all unless the slab moves which is very unlikely. There is no gap between mine, I thinned the brick down to a 1/4-3/8" at the juncture to minimize heat loss, but it is in contact.

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  • Gulf
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    Stacy,
    It looks like your cut line is about 1" from the face of your inner arch. Most 7and 1/4" saws will need a minimum of 1 and 3/8". I'm not sure what size circular saw or blade that you have. You mentioned the depth of cut for the blade would leave about 1/4". If it were me I would set my cut line out to at least 1 and 1/2" from the face of the inner arch. By doing that any saw that can accommodate a 7 and 1/4" blade can be used to finish the cut. Any cheap 7 and 1/4" masonry blade should be able to get that last 1/4".

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  • GianniFocaccia
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    Hey Tom,

    If I recall, the gap between your entryway and oven was about 1/4", right? I am planning to build the entryway to my pompeii as a standalone vault that just barely contacts the oven's inside arch with a 1/2" gap on the outside of the adjoining arches. This gap I plan to cap off with ceramic rope. Will I have any challenges keeping these two structures in contact with one another?
    John

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  • Tscarborough
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    A couple of things.

    First you should always use the rope, it serves to shape the caulk into an hourglass (when properly tooled), which is the desired shape for a flexible joint. Second it prevents 3-sided adhesion of the caulk which is a common cause of failure in a flexible joint. Even though it gets hard, it is still a flexible joint, since it is softer than the materials around it (or at least it should be).

    On thermal breaks, I think they are a good idea in general, so long they do not compromise the integrity of the structure. Done well they should strengthen the oven. Slip joints seem to work best for ovens because of the thermal expansion. Just remember that you do not need a big gap, 1/8"-1/4" is fine for most areas (The joint on my back wall is bigger, but the barrel expands quite a bit).

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  • deejayoh
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    Tracy -
    The value of the heat break between the inner and outer arch is for preventing heat migration out of the dome after the fire is out. Theory is that the oven should be hotter on day two and three with a heat break than without. I don't think there is much benefit to be derived on day one when the gasses are flowing through the flue.

    I do thing there is more benefit from the break in the vent than in the floor. I put the break in the floor mostly because I wanted to put soapstone there for appearance and durability/cleanability.

    FWIW - after installing the rope and the caulk in the arch, my recommendation is to go with caulk only. The stuff I got dries super hard and is going nowhere. I'd rather have two tubes of caulk than caulk + rope or rope only. I think I may be the first to try that Kaowool caulk - but I am impressed enough that I would recommend others adopt it as the way to go.

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  • texman
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    Thanks Gulf for the flue help!
    I really need some guidance and advice as to whether i should add a thermal break in the floor on the entryway. The picture attached shows my current situation. Just poor planning on my part. I can cut three of tiles on the wetsaw since they are not attached. But the other two are where the arch sits and will have to be cut with a circular saw and diamond blade, i guess. I think the blade will cut this firebrick. I havent tried it but i can test to be sure. But even at full depth, the saw will leave around 1/4" of the cut since the blade is not big enough to cut full thickness of the floor. i can manage that with the angle grinder i think. But no margin for error on the two under the arch. i dont think they should crack and i am fairly confident of a straight cut. But is all really worth it at this point? How much performance gain do you guys think the thermal breaks are adding to the overall oven performance? I am thinking of the same type as Deejay and aidan using stainless and ceramic rope to separate brick from steel. Seems like the rope is doing the work and the stainless is more for appearance. I like the stainless look, just trying to understand. Also, i am not convinced of the benefit of the heat break at the inner arch to outer arch contact because of all the heat of the gas. Since heat rises and is stored in the dome, doesnt that mean the thermal floor breaks are less effective also?
    Thanks for any and all help.
    Tracy

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  • Gulf
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    Originally posted by texman View Post
    .........
    I started cutting the outer dome bricks, see pic. I keep looking at entrance of my oven and wondering, "what am i going to do there?" I have been putting it off and focused on the dome. I have to figure something out there. It would help if i knew what i wanted it to look like...... I need some ideas on corner build entry.
    I did not take into account for the face. I don't think you will want to step out past the face of your outer arch. It sounds like you will end up even in the front to start with. (based on a 9" brick leaving a 5" opening) I am assuming you will finish with a 2" wide arch brick front and back for the opening.

    I think all of your stepping out will have to be to the rear. The concept is still the same, Though, the front of your smoke chamber would be straight up and only the sides and back would slope.

    That's only 2 more Tylenol .
    Last edited by Gulf; 07-03-2012, 03:50 PM. Reason: grammar

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  • Amac
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    It looks like you have a shallow entry (like mine) and also the inner arch protrudes just an inch or so - also like mine. This meant for me that I needed to cut a brick (or two) for the back of the vent which was rounded to sit on the inner arch top and at the same time slightly concave to sit also on the front of the dome. This complexity is partly the reason I decided not to try to heat break between the inner arch and the vent. It doesn't mean you can't do it though.
    Edit
    I found some pic of that brick - it was just one - looks like i sliced it in half first and then did the curve and the concave cutting. In hindsight two would have been better I had to cut two complicated wedges for either end later anyway.
    Last edited by Amac; 07-03-2012, 01:07 PM.

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  • texman
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    I'm not giving you an easy fix, just a fun one .
    Gulf
    Thanks for giving me a headache. The Queen is worthy of her title, no doubt.
    I am trying to draw out the transition. I think i know what i want to do. It is a Sharkey, karangi, aiden and gulf hybrid.
    I started cutting the outer dome bricks, see pic. I keep looking at entrance of my oven and wondering, "what am i going to do there?" I have been putting it off and focused on the dome. I have to figure something out there. It would help if i knew what i wanted it to look like.
    I am trying to get some stainless and do a heat break and considering the break between inner arch and outer arch. I cut my floor for the heat break about 6" past the inner arch, and i think i am stuck with that, which is ok i think. I need some ideas on corner build entry.

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  • Gulf
    replied
    Re: Texman Build

    Tracy,
    Dejayoh has the right idea. But if you really want to have some fun and make that wet saw pay for itself, step in and step out on the same row at the same time. You will get to the 8"X8" ID 12"X12" OD in half the courses.
    Going back to a pic from my build you will see how I cut a slope on my flu brick.

    You can use this method to cut the inside slope for your flu transition laying your brick flat (as opposed to how I layed mine). You should not need to cut the outside slope as it will be needed on the step-outs.
    Here is a sketch drawn representing 8"X4" firebrick (what I used for the chimney) it may have to be adjusted for your size brick. But the idea is the same.

    Note: Have to post before finished (lightning approaching) will edit......... Sorry about that I live in the piney woods. If the wind blows to hard or lightning is in the area I can loose a quarter hour of writing.

    You will have to pay close attention to the bonds and will have to scribe your inside corner cuts but I believe that it can be done in 3 or maybe 4 rows and will yield a smooth transition.

    This pic is of what I did laying the brick on edge yours should be layed flat and with not near as much slope.
    I'm not giving you an easy fix, just a fun one .
    Last edited by Gulf; 07-02-2012, 05:40 PM.

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