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42" Build in Seville Ohio!!

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  • 42" Build in Seville Ohio!!

    Made some progress today! I went against the grain and did a flat entrance as opposed to an arch....I know, I know, not as pretty....However, my oven will be enclosed and the final design is going to be a flat opening so it made 0 sense to do an arch that you would not end up seeing...Also, it made the entire process MUCH MUCH easier in my opinion...
    Last edited by zoolander; 07-10-2019, 04:00 AM.

  • #2
    I see you have quite a bit of inverted V, it will become more pronounced as you move up. I do see a couple taper bricks so you must have access to a saw to cut the bricks. A bevel will reduce or eliminate the inverted V, you do not need to do the entire side just near the interior of the dome.
    Russell
    Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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    • #3
      Originally posted by UtahBeehiver View Post
      I see you have quite a bit of inverted V, it will become more pronounced as you move up. I do see a couple taper bricks so you must have access to a saw to cut the bricks. A bevel will reduce or eliminate the inverted V, you do not need to do the entire side just near the interior of the dome.
      Thanks for the note on the inverted V....I do have a saw to cut with....I'll work at beveling the side of the bricks?? Also, does the inverted V cause heat loss or poor performance? Or is it more of a looks situation? Thanks for the input....

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      • #4
        You may have already done this but you need to tuck and point and existing inverted V joints. As you move up the Vs get larger and you do not tuck and point then the integrity of the joint is compromised. By beveling it will reduce the exposure of the mortar joint to the high temps of the oven and less chance of the joint failing and falling into your food. By the nature of the dome, the bricks won't collapse, invert V or not but the mortar may.
        Russell
        Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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        • #5
          Originally posted by UtahBeehiver View Post
          You may have already done this but you need to tuck and point and existing inverted V joints. As you move up the Vs get larger and you do not tuck and point then the integrity of the joint is compromised. By beveling it will reduce the exposure of the mortar joint to the high temps of the oven and less chance of the joint failing and falling into your food. By the nature of the dome, the bricks won't collapse, invert V or not but the mortar may.
          Excellent! Nice catch Utah I really appreciate the heads up....I will certainly be working on beveling bricks for the rest of the build. When you say tuck and point you are referring to filling the V joints with mortar correct? It was in this last course or 2 that the V really started to show it's ugly head...So If I caught it now, filled the existing Vs with mortar and beveled from here on out am I in good shape?? Or should I pull this last course off somehow and cut new ones? Thanks, Zoo

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          • #6
            Tuck and point is filling the inverted Vs from the interior of the dome. I am not sure it is worth the effort and gain to tear down what you have but rather to minimize the Vs going forward. This is a tuck and point tool.
            Last edited by UtahBeehiver; 06-29-2019, 06:05 AM.
            Russell
            Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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            • #7
              Originally posted by UtahBeehiver View Post
              Tuck and point is filling the inverted Vs from the interior of the dome. I am not sure it is work the effort and gain to tear down what you have but rather to minimize the Vs going forward. This is a tuck and point tool.
              Hey Utah,

              Thanks for the info, it's a help for sure! I'll be heading back into it tomorrow so I'll be beveling bricks and making them fit tighter...I'm hoping to knock out the rest of the dome tomorrow...ish. I'll update with more pics.

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              • #8
                I would find the bevel angle that work, then only cut 6 or so then recheck again, the oven shape changes enough that you do not want to cut a whole course without periodically checking the fit.
                Russell
                Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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                • #9
                  I want to add this for those which beveling is out of their means. When laying the brick, butter the brick in a way that the head and bed joints are full (at least) to the inside of the dome. After laying just a few brick to a course, you will figure out just how much to apply. That will yield a better bond. Try to save all pointing, if any is necessary, from the outside.
                  Joe Watson " A year from now, you will wish that you had started today" My Build Album / My Build

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by UtahBeehiver View Post
                    I would find the bevel angle that work, then only cut 6 or so then recheck again, the oven shape changes enough that you do not want to cut a whole course without periodically checking the fit.
                    Yes, that is how I approached the rest of the dome build from there on...Thanks again for the speedy fix!

                    An update to "Kicking some ass now!" (See attached photos) I think the rest of the dome turned out pretty well after I incorporated the beveling process as Utah suggested. Now I just need to add the blanket and do the enclosure and my summer project should be all set

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gulf View Post
                      I want to add this for those which beveling is out of their means. When laying the brick, butter the brick in a way that the head and bed joints are full (at least) to the inside of the dome. After laying just a few brick to a course, you will figure out just how much to apply. That will yield a better bond. Try to save all pointing, if any is necessary, from the outside.
                      Ok, so a note on pointing....If there are some gaps in the brick on the inside of the dome is it necessary to "point" / fill the gaps? Meaning does the process of filling the gaps on the inside of the dome serve any structural or performance function or is it just simply for looks? The bricks in the dome are obviously mortared in on the back side but in some cases there are some visible gaps that you could fit mortar into but I'm not sure that I care too much about a few small gaps unless it could lead to problems down the road...Thoughts on that????

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                      • #12
                        Having the joints full of mortar effects both structural and performance imo. Just how much, I really don't know for sure.

                        Mortar is more for holding bricks apart than it is for holding bricks together. The theory behind the Pompeii (spherical) dome is that it can't fall in on itself. As you said, "The bricks in the dome are obviously mortared in on the back side". But, I can't tell for sure what technique was used to do this. If the wide side of the trowel is used to push it in from the back side, the mortar will bridge over and not penetrate very far into the head joint, leaving gaps toward the interior. A better technique (if not buttering the head joint) would be to "chop" the mortar downward into the head joint with the edge of the trowel from the top as each brick is laid.

                        The dome, like the floor, is a heat bank for the oven. It provides both radiant heat and also works like a battery to store energy (heat) for retained heat cooking. The more gaps the less radiant and less retained heat.

                        Is any of this a critical error?; probably not. Is your oven going to fall in on itself within your lifetime?; probably not. Are you going to notice performance issues; probably not, unless you build an identical oven with all the joints full and compare the results. Like I said "probably not"

                        My response wasn't to critique or alarm you. It was to alert future followers of this build to (what one of my mentors) would have called a "best practice"
                        Last edited by Gulf; 06-15-2019, 08:03 PM.
                        Joe Watson " A year from now, you will wish that you had started today" My Build Album / My Build

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gulf View Post
                          Having the joints full of mortar effects both structural and performance imo. Just how much, I really don't know for sure.

                          Mortar is more for holding bricks apart than it is for holding bricks together. The theory behind the Pompeii (spherical) dome is that it can't fall in on itself. [/B]
                          Gulf, Thanks for the response...What you said does make sense and it is probably worth the extra time to fill in the open gaps. It's interesting that you said that these ovens could possibly fall in on themselves as i thought this type of oven was constructed, in part, utilizing the building principles introduced by Brunelleschi in which the keystone should technically lock the bricks in place indefinitely. However, I am certainly no Brunelleschi and I am relying on mortar, not superior brick craftsmanship, to hold my dome together ....will update on the build when I have made some more progress Thanks again! Zoo

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                          • #14
                            Here's a ditty of a question....Somehow my inner dome height "grew" to 23 inches during the build. My opening height is 12.5 high and 20" wide, which gives me a ratio of around 54-55% on the height ratio. How boned am I? Side note, does it make a difference that I did the flat angle iron opening as opposed to the arch for airflow? Meaning the opening I chose would give a consistent 12.5" height across the entire opening as opposed to an arch that would only yield that height at the peak and then lessen as it followed the curve on either side.....
                            Last edited by zoolander; 06-17-2019, 06:10 AM.

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                            • #15
                              The inner dome height increased because the pivot point on the IT was not a floor level but off the floor level. It is not notice on the low levels but as you reach the top of the dome the offset is apparent. As far as the ratio, it is what it is now. Nothing you can do abt it now. For all you new builders out there, this is why we advocate having the ITpivot point as close to the floor level as possible. I don't believe this will adversely affect you oven
                              Russell
                              Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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