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42 Pompeii in San Felipe, MX

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  • OK... thanks builders for the rapid response. It is in and the template is out. Pulled it almost immediately to clean it up. It’s not going anywhere. I pointed it in as you stated and it did work out pretty well... couple of spots that will need some additional pointing and there are other areas that will need some more work too.

    Everything was wetter than normal. The mortar was so set that when the brick was turned it wanted to fall off the brick... so I waited about 10 seconds and re-applied more and slipped it in. No tapping required, just a gentle push. Pointed in from above and there you are. I did shave quite a bit off the keystone before putting it in... no way was I going to be able to point the mortar in other wise.

    I did vacuum out the floor and removed the protective plywood. Two reasons, one to clean it up and the other to make sure I could get it out. It goes back in later today.

    Thanks again everyone, Mikie V.
    My Oven Build
    https://community.fornobravo.com/for...mx?view=thread

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    • Be careful with fully saturating the bricks. You actually do want them to suck moisture from the mortar to create a decent bond. If the surface of the brick is wet this will not happen and the mortar won’t bond properly. The ideal is somewhere between dry and fully saturated.
      Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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      • Originally posted by david s View Post
        The ideal is somewhere between dry and fully saturated.
        That is a pretty broad spectrum . I’m going to try to lean a bit more towards the drier side. Maybe a drier brick and wetter mortar for the rest of the build?

        Thank You David,
        Mikie V.

        My Oven Build
        https://community.fornobravo.com/for...mx?view=thread

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        • The brick needs to be damp but obviously no standing water should be on it. you want your mortar like peanut butter maybe a slight wetter for your area since its dry and sunny but it should stick to the trowel when you flick it. You obviously are doing something right your build is looking good and your almost over the arch and thats when the speed picks up. Looking good


          Ricky
          My Build Pictures
          https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%...18BD00F374765D

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          • You need to find the mortar consistency that works for you. I had zero luck trying to use a "peanut butter" consistency (disbonds) and much better success with slightly damped bricks and wetter mortar. I would mix the mortar very wet/sloppy, then add dry mix till I could get start to get some ridges in the in the mix when I ran my trowel through it like a blade. Probably the best thing I learned from youtube. This wetter mortar allowed me to build the upper parts of the dome without any holding devices (sticks etc) and I even abandoned the clamp I had on my IT once I had it dialed in.
            My build thread
            https://community.fornobravo.com/for...h-corner-build

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            • I agree with JR because you have to adjust for different climates and what works for you. I did not use a clamp and didn't have any issues with bricks falling I had a few want to slide but I held it there for a 30 seconds and then it was fine. I just had that one or two brick set in the course from the previous day and alternated on installing the bricks on each side of it/them. This gave the brick a chance to set while i set the brick on the other side. I did not bevel the whole side of my bricks so I packed the joints after a installing a few bricks and that seemed to really get things locked in. The fire clay makes this mortar real sticky pretty good stuff.

              Ricky
              Last edited by Chach; 10-23-2019, 07:03 AM.
              My Build Pictures
              https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%...18BD00F374765D

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              • Hey thanks Ricky and JR for the mortar tips. I’ve been all over the map with this... seems a wetter mortar has worked well so far for me. No matter the consistency I have cracking on the giant backside mortar gaps that start almost immediately. I’m getting no cracking on the tighter joints.

                Here is how I do it. Maybe you can spot a problem or you will say “Yep, that’s it.” I make enough mortar to lay about 8 bricks in a shot. I pre cut and fit them knowing that when I meet a termination point I will need to trim an edge to account for mortar creep. When I mix the home brew it’s 3 full scoops of sand and 1 each of the clay, lime and portland. I use a red solo cup and it all goes into a bucket. I thoroughly mix the dry ingredients until it’s like nice an fluffy... like bread flower almost. Then, the water is added slowly with the drill mixer. When it’s incorporated and not super wet I let it rest for 5 minutes... then slowly wet it while mixing until it’s wet. It doesn’t have standing water on it when I’m done but almost.

                I don’t butter the brick I’m laying, I butter the chain and the brick I’m setting it next to. I put a bunch down, put the brick in my IT and set the brick edge to edge with it’s neighbor. I’m able to push it, by hand, almost all the way down. I finish by tapping it down and tight to it’s neighbor with the end of a 2 pound hammer handle. I immediately remove the IT and pack in mortar where ever I see a holiday.

                I was wondering if there was any harm in pre-mixing the dry ingredients (less sand) so I can make this happen faster. Is there a chemical reaction I need to worry about or a separation of ingredients that could potentially mess this up?
                My Oven Build
                https://community.fornobravo.com/for...mx?view=thread

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                • I premixed dry ingredients in a 5 gallon Homer bucket then would mix small batches mortar in a two gallon bucket. It was about the right amount for me before the mortar started to flash.
                  Russell
                  Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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                  • I’m curious Russell, did your dry mix include the sand? I was worried that the sand might separate and end up at the bottom of the bucket. I do like the 2 gallon bucket idea. Easier to handle up on the dome.

                    I’ve just had to get up onto the base to work on the dome... had been using a step ladder but it’s just not getting it anymore. Man, it’s spooky up there. It’s a heck of a fall if I miss step.
                    My Oven Build
                    https://community.fornobravo.com/for...mx?view=thread

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                    • It did include quartz sand bought in bags. If it did separate, I did not notice.
                      Russell
                      Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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                      • Okay, here we are at what could be the place where the arch could get cleared. If the IT doesn’t lie then it will happen on this course.

                        The dreaded droop. I don’t see it yet, but this has got to be where it happens. In the first picture the black and blue arrows reference where the natural locataion of this brick would be placed anywhere on the course below it. Maybe the droop comes from where the brick contacts the block below... in this case where the blue arrow is happens to be a low spot on that course. The high spots are closest to the mortar joints... not sure if it makes a difference... just thought I’d share.

                        In the second photo, a close up of the first photo, the black arrows indicate areas that excessive mortar is super glued and really ugly. The question is do ya think it would be okay to take the diamond blade angle grinder to it... you know, kiss it.

                        Anyway, the other photos are more of the same... just wanting to get it right,
                        Mikie V.
                        My Oven Build
                        https://community.fornobravo.com/for...mx?view=thread

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                        • Pretty frustrating day. I had big plans. Day started with a honey bee infestation. I had water in a wheel barrel, a bucket and the wet saw... they were all full of dead bees and plenty of live ones that were more irritated with me than I was with them. Hundreds dead. I managed to remove the standing water and they finally left the work area. I did not get stung this time. By then the winds had picked up to over 30 mph and that is just no fun but I really wanted to get this chain cut, numbered and clean.

                          I couldn’t get the brick next to the one I set yesterday to fit right. By the time I got it nibbled off on the corners to get a proper fit, the next one in line was going to have the same problem. I was going to have to shave/nibble over a 1/4” on the corners... the problem was compounding. I also didn’t like the big mortar gap between the two I set yesterday so I got the hammer out and knocked it off.

                          It came loose pretty easy. It took about 5 soft taps with a 2 pound hammer to do it. It was pretty easy to scrape the dried mortar off.I this was the last brick I set yesterday afternoon. At the very center of the brick the mortar was still damp. I imagine any brick would have come off that easy. The brick next to it is nice and solid and I think I can work off of it.

                          In the first pic below the brick to the left is the one I knocked off the oven. You can see some mortar is still stuck to it really well. Also, note how much I had to nibble off the corners to minimize the horizontal gap compared the the brick in the middle which is just a standard 1/2 brick... you can see why the brick sitting to the right just would not fit... it sat above it by a good 1/4”. This was setting up to be a potential never ending issue.

                          In the second pic you can see where I have an un-nibbled brick in the IT... this is where I took the other brick off. You can see how big the horizontal gap is. I will say that it takes more than just a little to get rid of that gap.

                          My question is at this point do you think I can just forget about trying to eliminate that horizontal gap and just massage each brick or just worry about the vertical “V” and move on? the later would make my life a whole lot easier. I would just measure each one to split the mortar gap below it and jig it and cut it.

                          Thanks for the help,
                          Mikie V.
                          My Oven Build
                          https://community.fornobravo.com/for...mx?view=thread

                          Comment


                          • You may have to start using 1/3s to eliminate the horizontal joint gap and eventually 1/4s or a combination of both. This is up to you. You could feather each side of the bottom to reduce the gap but that is a lot of work. Attached is a pi c of my dome and you can see how I had to use smaller width bricks as I moved up into the upper courses.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Last edited by UtahBeehiver; 10-25-2019, 03:24 PM.
                            Russell
                            Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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                            • Thank you for the rapid response sir and I always love seeing that keystone plug with the sun on it. It’s a thing of beauty. If I’m seeing this right it appears as though you went to 3rds at about the 7th chain, which is where I’m at now not counting the chain at floor level. I believe it’s a great solution to my problem. What I have going is a mess. I’m gonna knock that other one off of there now, and skinny up my IT (it’s too big now anyway even with 1/2 bricks). Those 1/3 bricks should be easier to work with too?

                              The winds are suppose to die down tomorrow to 15 mph. Big weekend here with the Day of the Dead coming up. Man, they love Halloween here. I will take another stab at it tomorrow morning early before the festivities begin.

                              Also, wanted to mention a couple of things that I thought were interesting or that I just wanted to mention. First, when ever I climbed up on the oven stand and touched the dome it never really “felt solid”... kinda like tapping on a drum or like a tuning fork.That is until the arch was completed with the keystone. The oven took on a new “feel”... like it is solid now. Not sure why I mention it, just that now it really feels like it’s gonna be A-OK. Second, water here is always an issues. We. Have a 2,200 gallon cistern that we fill every 5 days (palm and thornless mesquite trees newly planted). Cost is $35 US every time. The water is not potable and it is loaded with heavy metals and pesticides. Probably some cool bugs too. Always kinda wonder how that works with the Homebrew. We go to town and get our purified (alkaline) water every two weeks.

                              I mention the water because I have to be careful to conserve it when possible. I try to keep my wheel barrel half full, but with the bee thing I’m gonna have to find a new method to clean and soak... I will have to discard the water each evening. Any water that has the Homebrew in it will not be used to water my trees... I just don’t know how that bit of Portland and Lime will go with the trees. Not worried about the fire clay.



                              Anyway, thanks again! The attached picture is of the brick I was talking about that I just now dislodged from the oven... pretty good look at that adhesion or lack there of... you can see some moisture in the grey mortar. Right after I knocked it loose the bees were all over it trying to suck out a little water.

                              Mikie V.
                              My Oven Build
                              https://community.fornobravo.com/for...mx?view=thread

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                              • It sounds like you may need to put a bee bath a little ways from your oven
                                Joe Watson " A year from now, you will wish that you had started today" My Build Album / My Build

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