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42Ē Pompeii in San Felipe, MX

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  • UtahBeehiver
    replied
    Up to you, but mortar is just fine on the back side.The inherent nature of the Pompeii shape is self supporting for the most part. Mortar fills in the gaps. That said, home brew 3:1:1:1 (sand, lime, portland and fire clay) is cheap. It might be a different story if you are using an expensive commercial mortar such as Heatstop 50 (btw max. recommended joint size is 1/2" according to their literature, but I have seen a lot of builds going a lot wider). You are really after tight inside joints as pictured in you last post.

    PS brick dust has been used in lieu of fire clay but you probably won't have enough just from you cuttings. Fire clay is available at any mason or brick supplier. HC Muddox is one brand prevalent in Calf.
    Last edited by UtahBeehiver; 07-30-2019, 12:48 PM.

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  • modified9v
    replied
    Utah, I donít see an attachment but I think Iím getting what you are saying. All brick will be on the FB board except the outer arch. In talking about the mortar gaps on the backside of the dome... well, attached is a pic for reference. I do see now that as the second course goes up it will kinda hide the big gaps under them on the first course.

    Just seems like a lot of mortar to me. My thinking is that the mass of the brick holds heat better than a ton of mortar. Also, from my reading on various builds, the Portland is the weak link... just thinking that would be why the bricks would be better wedge cut, both top and bottom.

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  • UtahBeehiver
    replied
    Good to see Doug chime in. For sematic purposes, I have attached a diagram of what brick orientations are (so we are all taking the same thing). So IMHO we are talking about using 1/2 headers instead of stretches, back to the original question, 1/2 soldiers have some advantages and disadvantages, pros, there is not a joint at the floor and dome for a peel to slide into, cons, due to the number of vertical joints, it will be harder to do stagger bond on the first course. Either case, you need to make sure the dome course also sits on the AiSi board and not the concrete hearth.As far as dome work, use the best faced bricks on the back half, making adjustments on the front half. Once the dome is done, only the back half is really visible. Mortar gap?? are you talking the backside? IMHO not worth the effort to reduce the back side gap (even though I did this with lots of time and effort) let mortar be you friend. Also, you should have about 1/6 to an 1/8" gap around the perimeter of the floor for expansion, no mortar, fills in with ash later anyway.

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  • modified9v
    replied
    Thanks again... would it be ok to take small wedge cuts off the sides to reduce mortar gap?

    Mikie V.

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  • Karangi Dude
    replied
    Mikie V,

    That gap will only get filled with ash and you won't know it is there once you start turning out some beautiful pizzas, there are plenty of ovens built this way, even a 1/4'' is not to big

    Mikie, making sure that you don't have joins that line up from course to course is most important as this is where most ovens will crack keeping the joins staggered with as much overlap as possible

    Cheers Doug
    Attached Files

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  • modified9v
    replied
    Thanks Doug... I originally wanted to lay that 1st course as a stretcher but when using 1/2 bricks the gap between the floor and that course is really big in spots. Maybe if I make each brick a wedge then the face would be small enough to reduce that gap where it wouldnít be so large. I know we need some gap for expansion, but with the 1/2 brick we are talking about a small canyon of a gap. Thoughts?

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  • Karangi Dude
    replied
    Hi Mikie V.

    The problem with laying the first course as a soldier course is the vertical joins of the second course will fall in several places on a joins of the soldier course to avoid this lay the first course as a stretcher (on their flats) by doing this you will be able to lay several courses before the odd join will start to line up with the joins below

    Cheers Doug

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  • modified9v
    replied
    Thanks for the feedback Utah... my thought on the 1/3 vs 1/2 was the mortar joints being so close... they donít line up but they are close. Is that OK??? Iím all about less work.

    On the out-of-level slab, yes concrete and the Calsil will go on top. Curious, when you guy talk about fire clay, can that be substituted with the brick dust after itís dried out?

    Thanks, Mikie V.

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  • UtahBeehiver
    replied
    Imho, no need to go 1/3 this soon, just extra work. Are you talking concrete hearth out of level? You will be able to true up with 50/50 fire clay sand mix with 1/2"notched trowel just before laying AiSi board from FB

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  • modified9v
    replied
    Well, got the floor laid out and cut. Overall, pretty satisfied. Im not thrilled about the couple little floor pieces, but they really arent there to do anything but look good. Hope they stay in place. I might just put the first course brick that is next to the little pieces a bit closer so they cant fall. Probably will go with 1/3 bricks on the second and go back to halves to keep the joints from lining up.

    Went out to the base today and checked it for level... ugggh! It is far from level. What can I use to float it out to take out the imperfections. I have some stucco laying around if that would work. Worst spot is probably 5/32... maybe a bit more. I should have my FB board on Saturday... hoping so.

    Tomorrow I will make my IT and then build the inner arch form. Feels good to get something accomplished.

    Mikie V.

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  • modified9v
    replied
    Thank you Utah and Gulf for the rapid response... you just saved me a tremendous amount of time and grief. Before reading your posts I decided to make a jig to cut them all... ran a test of 6 brick and the results were substandard. Too much deflection on the blade cutting that little sliver. Tried it with a 8Ē blade and a 10Ē blade. No good.

    Before I took apart the floor I ran a peel over them several times and it didnít catch at all. Man, I just have to have that herringbone pattern so Iíll just take the time to do the best I can with what I have. Might make some minor cuts as it gets out of whack... I will start in the middle and work my way out paying particular attention that they look good at the entry too. Guess Iím gonna have to let that perfectionist thing go a little or I will drive myself crazy.

    Also the floor will sit on the board that our hosts, Forno Bravo sells. Gotta throw Ďem a bone as it were. I should have the board next week as Iím making a trip to my Yuma mail box... need to make a decision on mortar soon too. Probably home brew as I think I can get the lime and fire clay in AZ too. If not, Iíll have to bite the bullet and go the Heatstop route.

    Thanks again,
    Mikie V.

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  • UtahBeehiver
    replied
    Are the brick perfectly square, no, but I am not sure it is worth the effort to shave an 1/8" off (they are wire cut so they are not as perfect a a pressed fire brick). I would chose the very best bricks for the center of the floor, the gaps around the perimeter will fill themselves up with ash anyway. As far as convex or concave, I am not sure what floor insulation you are planning on using but depending of what you use, you can bed the firebricks with a mixture of 50% fireclay and sand, laid down with a 1/2" notched trowel (like you would laying ceramic tile), it may have to be dry mix in on top of CaSi board or a slurry if on top of p or vcrete. You do "not" mortar the floor down, it needs to move with the heat of the fire..

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  • Gulf
    replied
    My dome brick were like that. I discovered that they were extruded. Not pressed like standard firebrick. I abandoned the idea for using them for the floor. The herringbone bone is pretty but, you will get the same performance by just laying them diagonal. That may save you from trimming so many ends.

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  • modified9v
    replied
    Thank you Utah for the tips on the IT... Thinking it will work out awesome... was thinking of sacrificing one fire brick and just attach the swivel directly to that and replace that brick with a good one.

    So, been trying to lay out the floor and it just isnít working out... the further out I go the worse they fit together. Finally figured out that nearly every brick is out of square on one end... some as much as 1/16Ē. Only one end. The long sides and the other end are square. Iím going to try cutting an 1/8Ē off every bad end and try again... also found that the bricks are slightly convex on one side and concave on the other. I will put the concave side down for stability.

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  • UtahBeehiver
    replied
    A majority of the builds are just fine with the floor bricks on the flat rather than the side. Unless you are planning on heavy duty bread production then flat side up is good. Even though the saw is old it is MK which a a good quality brick saw. On the IT there are a few critical items that must be factored in.first, the pivot point needs to be as close as possible to the floor elevation (some builders put in a false wood brick to mount the IT to), second, the center line of the IT from the pivot point to the center line of the "L" bracket must intersect the brick at the exact horizontal middle point, third, the IT should be adjustable for length (in and out). Any high spots on the floor can be smooth out with a diamond cup wheel or a belt sander. This is to ensure there is no spots to catch the peel on.

    Heat breaks, I like Gulf's "L" shape inner arch shape heat breaks. I placed my floor heat break right at the inner arch, does it make a difference, beats me. You still get a lot of radiant heat from the oven, heat break or not. The best advice is a good insulated door.
    Last edited by UtahBeehiver; 07-27-2019, 09:08 AM.

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