Tools section, anyone?

[james]

Nick and Refrax

Nick,

Call Tammy (800 407 5119) and we can make this work. Just don't put Refrax on your bagels.

Refrax is a wonderful refractory mortar (better than the domestics), and you will enjoy it. It's easy to mix, easy to work with, sets fast (but not out of control like home-mixed Calcium Aluminate mortar), sets hard, and is waterproof. It will enjoy the limelight, and your oven.

Still, I am not sure this is the right forum...

Salute,
James

[redbricknick]

Shmear

Does the tools section encapsulate materials also? If so, I have a question. Does the Fefrax mortar hold as well as the heat stop? I want to keep my mortar joins at an eighth inch (just like my hero DMUN) and I'm all for the cream cheese consistency. Heat stop is willing to provide product placement mortar, but we have to pick it up from one of their suppliers in L.A. All of whom are mooks, none of whom have any in stock, or want to go out of their way to order us any in the time frame we would like. It'll be a couple of weeks till we get it, and I can't wait that long. I'm ready to drop the hammer on the Refrax if it will do a comparable job to Sir DMUN's incomparable mortar joins.

[james]

The general rule is that if you use a tool every day you should have the best tool made by the hand of man. If you use it every month, you should have a good quality general tool, but if you use it only ocasionally you should buy the least tool that will do the job, or rent.

Excellent advice.
James

[CanuckJim]

Saws

Carioca,

Good on you. Never tried the bow technique, but it's got to work. Mine's a Husqvarna 61, some 20 years old now. Paid about $900 CDN for it, and it's been worth every penny. Just did its first overhaul, a carb kit. Other than that, plugs, grease, bars and chains. Good tools, like a Stihl saw, just keep on getting better. It's an old friend now.

I'm with you.

Jim

[carioca]

another angle to grind :-)

Hello there! Thanks to all for your various comments.

There is ONE consideration I forgot to mention: If I buy a cheap tool because I won't use it for long before I toss it, I waste the resources used to make it - and I encourage the makers of cheap and nasty goods to continue in their ways...

BTW of tools for the job: when I needed to fell a tree next to the foundation of the planned Pompeii oven, I used an American Bear bow to shoot an arrow with 60 lb fishing line attached into the crook of a high branch, then dragged up a heavy string to pull up a steel cable, to which I attached a high-tensile chain. A cheap and nasty hand winch (can't bring myself to toss it!), was next connected to another length of hi-tensile chain, which was looped around a distant tree. I then winched the cable taut to pull the chain in the direction I wanted it to fall. Only then did I make the kerf and felling cuts with my Stihl saw.

I bought the latter for nearly $A2000, after obtaining council permission to fell eight trees next to our house and learning that a pro tree surgeon would charge between $A1000 and $A2000 for EACH tree to be felled. The saw is now a year old, has felled and cut up some 20 trees and shows every indication of going to outlast me... (A smaller Stihl saw I bought 35 years ago is still in use for limbing and cutting small stuff.)

I use the bow-and-arrow technique on most larger trees, but often also resort to an American-made 'high-limb chain saw' - essentially a bit of saw chain attached to heavy lines for see-sawing across limbs - to reduce the falling impact of the tree by removing branches before felling it. This gadget has been worth every cent of its $A90 purchase price to me...

In the manner just described, I can lop or fell almost every tree single-handedly, although my wife sometimes has to help me with the see-sawing when the chain binds at narrow angles.

Cheers, and sorry if I abused my posting privilege with a boring tale...

Carioca

[dmun]

That's a good point. You "pro's" use the same tools over and over, where the homeowner might only use a tool for a single job.

The general rule is that if you use a tool every day you should have the best tool made by the hand of man. If you use it every month, you should have a good quality general tool, but if you use it only ocasionally you should buy the least tool that will do the job, or rent.

I can move individual tool postings here. There is lot, from power tools, to diamond blades, masonry tools, concrete mixers and pumps, etc.

I nominate my concrete mixer tutorial currently here.

[jengineer]

thank you!

[james]

Pro vs. homeowner

Jim,

That's a good point. You "pro's" use the same tools over and over, where the homeowner might only use a tool for a single job. The carpenters I worked with on our last extension always had the super-light worm drive circular saws -- which are expensive. I told one of them that there was a Makita on sale at Costco, and he jumped -- "I would never use one of those, too heavy, bad on the shoulder and back, etc."

When the new version of the forum software is up (we are waiting for our web host to update to mySQL 4.0), I can move individual tool postings here. There is lot, from power tools, to diamond blades, masonry tools, concrete mixers and pumps, etc.

James

[CanuckJim]

Tools

I'm with joengineer here, thinking that a separate tools posting would be helpful. I'm definitely in one camp, but, then again, I'm on the pro side of the equation, where multiple use is an issue. Nonetheless, sharing a bit on the tool side could be quite beneficial.

Jim

[jengineer]

waffling

Waffling between Maver and Jim. Watching my dad blow a gasket when I left his favotie hand saw out on the lawn one fall night I can see both sides of this equation of quility versus brute force get it done and toss it. DMUN and CANUCKJIM are definately on one side of the fence. I think that was rather obvious. MAVER, REDBRICK, and JAMES - well we know their ilk.

I would love to have a space dedicated to tools that we use. Only problem is that my current home does not have the space and I am not willing to turn my garage into a tool crib. So, depending ont he jobb and depending on weather I plan on using the tool again has dictated what tool i will get. the only problem with this is that when i buy non-quality.... you get what you pay for. No matter how careful you are there are some things that require quality. My recent case was builidng a light box for a fish tank - a four day project that has gone on for tooo many weeks now. I needed to cut a sheet of baltic playwood but i don't have a table saw nor do I have a place to put one. A hand rip saw would not produce a straight cut and thus that leaves me with a circular saw, should have spent the extra $100 and gotten a worm drive (hint hint it cuts better). So how to do this. Find a straight piece of wood to use as a rip fence - no luck. Use a long angle iron for a guide - flexes just enough that a side force as I am ripping will end up with a 1/8 bow. Ah found 2 versions of 100 inch edges at the big boxes bith are cut in half so you a have a joining system. One of the connecting systems di mnot line the edges up correctly. The other was thinner and a bit flimsy. The better solutiuon was an edge that it BUILT but it costs 4 times what I paid and I was not sure if I would have a need for it again. Yes I almost bought it since I was frustrated with the lack of quality and robusteness of the other options.

So there you go the ramblings of a mad carpenter. Here is how I straddle the fence. Is the tool required to do fine craftmanship or is the finished product going to be hidden by a facade? Do I have a place to store the tool when I am done with this particular project. Do I know someone that has the tool of quality and will they let me borrow it, better yet will they come and help me with their tool (I am in that field with some of my tools, "oh you want to borrow it, how about we to a Tom Sawyer, I will come and bring my tool and together we can do this little project - by the way feed me"). Will the lack of the proper tooling extend the period of when the project will be completed and what will the frustration level be of not having the proper tool on hand - will the wife kick me in the rear with all my complaining and tell me to just buy the darn thing?

James - a grouping for tools could be a nice addition in the installation forum. Throughout that section there are many postings that have talked about tools and various options. I had not seen the type of concrete pumper that Drake got for his pour until he posted, unless people know were to look Jim's post on his pointing tools is buried. I also see the tools section as one that could easily get into off topic posts as a month or two could be spent on discussing the history and use of the tools that DMUN posted for his clock works. Not only are machining tools for gears pictured but so are cabinet making and just what is in all those drawers?

finally a plug - leevalley.com is your friend.

[james]

I have to admit that I'm on the other end of the tool spectrum, and would never consider sharing a photo of my tool area/garge/Superfund clean up site. That's what is so great about this forum -- we accept people of all tool persuations.

After doing 7 home extensions in 15 years, I have a pretty motley collection of tools, and given the state of my garage, I tend to just drive to Home Depot to buy what I need, rather than waste an hour looking for it -- and as a result I have three of this, and four of that. Other than my various nice deWalt tools and titanium framing hammer, I tend toward the use to toss school. My car can drive to Harbor Freight on its own and everyone at Home Depot knows me by name.

Hey, I installed an oven with cardboard boxes and duct tape once, just to see if you could do it.

I can hear Alf screaming in the background.

Let me know if you want a separte Tool forum, or a sticky thread under Getting Started called Tools. I can easily to either one.
James

[maver]

David, I think if you die now, you win!

[dmun]

tools

A quick tour of the inside of the building where my oven is going may be appropriate to this topic:







To put things in perspective, in this last photo, the side of my rising oven is seen through the window on the right.

[maver]

tools

I share the fascination with tools, but I'm seeing too much agreement and at this particular moment I'm feeling argumentative. So, relying on the good will of the forum, here goes: cheap tools can be fine - more important than the quality of the tool is a good understanding of what the tool can and cannot do - use a tool that will fit your application. James understands this - in the pompei plans he recommends a cheap garden hoe as a concrete mixer and suggests it can be tossed at the end of the project. A motorized concrete mixer would, of course, be the "better tool", but a small one may lead to frustration when mixing larger batches. The low end $250 mixer at my big box store costs much more than my hoe, but may not do work any more efectively than my hoe, a plastic tub, and my back. I could spend more on a larger concrete mixer with bigger capacity, but I don't live on acreage like Carioca - nowhere to put it. In my situation, a disposable tool may make more sense - less clutter in my limited garage space. Buying a high end german wood plane like my furniture making friend has romantic appeal, but I've seen him use and maintain it, and I know I don't have the skill for that right now, so a cheap stanley plane with disposable blades allows me to do the work I need to do to take the corner off a piece of wood.

[vincent]

Tools

Tools run neck and neck with a dog being mans best friend..ant the one who dies with the most tools wins...