Adelaide WFO Build

[brickie in oz]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

the main issue I have found is that depending on which way the wind blows I sometimes get a bit of smoke coming out of the front.

It happen to all ovens Im sure.

Tonight we will test it as tomorrow the relies are coming over for pizza.

Ill be interested to see how it goes, the general consensus is to cure he hell out of the oven before a big fire to stop the oven from cracking....

[vdubber]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

I lowered the outer arch by one course which helped a lot with the smoke. I think that the smoke is only when I first fire up. Once the fire gets going and the flue starts to draw it doesn't appear to be an issue. I think that with a deeper flue the issue might go away but with my limited space I couldn't go any deeper. A small compromise I guess.


My oven cracked immediately as I built it. The special fireclay / cement / lime / bricks sand combo made an excellent sticky clay-like mortar which made building the dome a breeze. The only issue, is being almost like potters clay, it shrank as it dried. The result was lots of little cracks on the larger joins.

I did not opt to shape every brick, only the top courses where gaps started to appear. This meant that there were quite large gaps at the rear of the bricks, which required a lot of mortar, this is where the cracks are.

Since firing it today, with ever increasing fires, no further cracks seem to have appeared.

However cracks or no cracks it does not appear to affect it's use. Not sure it will still be standing in 2000 years tho.

Here's the finished flue + stack

[vdubber]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

I laid on the first layer of 'vermicrete' last night. Got to say, that stuff is not very sticky. Trying to get the stuff to stick about 8 inches up from the bottom is hardest. Anything higher and it sits there by it's own weight, anything lower and you can build it up and support it from the bottom.

I found that starting from the top and working down was easiest until you got to the 8 inch mark, then switching and working from the bottom up to finish it seemed to work.

The coat I added was about an inch thick, this equated to about half a (100ltr) bag. Still got a few coats to go yet.

Took this pic this morning.

Will wait until the weekend to put more coats on. Back to work today

[cobblerdave]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

Gudday Vduber
Yes I'm the first to admit it Ive cooked my first pizza after burning out the ply form work. Dome had cured and dried for a fortnight, dry hearth insulation used ...yep it was still scarey ...pizza tasted good.
However....I would be a little carefull from here on in you will still have water trapped in the mortar layer and have added quite a lot with the pearlite layer which is currently trapped in all those small spaces that makes your insulation work like it does. Add lots of heat you'll just turn that all to steam which could just as well damage your insulation and dome from the internall pressure.
Might I suggest leaving the dome unrendered for now to assist in allowing the water to escape. You have mentioned the wind and you have still the heat of summer there to speed things along.
I have had experience with wet ovens my oven was soaked as well during the brisbane floods (Rain only). It took quite a few low and slow fires to finally dry out. By the way when wet the oven will not get to pizza temp you'll find the top will clear but not the sides so its useless to cook in anyhow.



Wet soggy ovens produce wet soggy pizza!

Regards Dave

PS By the way I do like the round oven base Lots! suits the shape of a round oven I recon better than a square one

[vdubber]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

G'day Dave.

You are spot on. After cooking tonight I noticed that the vermiculite insulation was damp in several patches, I guess this is the water / steam seeping through. I think I will leave the remainder of the insulation until the dome has dried out a little more. I was convinced that the series of small fires had dried it out but I guess I was wrong.

Whilst stoking it up this arvo, getting ready for the relies coming over I was looking for the carbon to burn off from the inside of the dome (I have read elsewhere that this is a good indication that things are up to temperature). What I noticed was that even after an hour and a half the dome was still black.

Ok. Something is obviously not right. I decide that my fire is obviously not big enough and add more wood. The fire starts cranking and the dome starts to clear. Yay.

As the fire progressed I moved it around the oven. I probably fed it about six or seven times over the course of a couple of hours. I started in the middle and then moved it side to side. When I stoked it right up I moved the fire to one edge, this seemed to draw a much better flame, in fact at one point the flames went right across the dome and just out of the door. I raked the coals across the base to heat things up before cooking. I then cleaned the base and left the fire hard up against one side for cooking the pizza.

Cooking pizza is easy. However, making pizza is something altogether different. I found it real easy to get the pizza stuck to the prep surface and impossible to get it on the peel. Then when I did get in on the peel, it stuck there too. Not good for pizza but earned a few laughs. There is definitely an art to be learned.

As the evening progressed I got the hang of things a little better. I ended up avoiding trying to make large thin bases and instead opted for smaller thicker ones. This made things a little easier.

We also used our bread maker to knock up the dough. This turned out not to be such a good idea. Great for a couple of pizzas but not for lots. Next time we plan to make it by hand in bulk.

Overall the evening was a great success. Lots to learn about using the oven, lots to learn about making pizza. What we did make tasted good, and apart from the early sticky pizza, most of what we made even looked like pizza.

So lessons learned...

Small thick pizzas.
Bigger fire (it almost seems like I should half fill the oven up with wood - does this sound right - what does everyone else do?)
Better prep area (need to get my work surface finished)
More pizza dough.

The oven held up very well. There does not appear to be any cracking and apart from the damp patches no noticeable changes. Tomorrow it's of to the local wholesalers to buy some bulk pizza flour and mozzarella.

Mick.

[david s]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

Mick,
Your oven is still wet and needs more fires to dry it out. If you place some sheet plastic over it while firing you will see the condensation on the underside of it, indicatingbtherevis still moisture to get rid of. Also as you eliminate the moisture the oven will clear quicker and the fires easier to light. Firing a moist oven is a bitch, slow temp rise and a bit smokey.wait until it is perfectly dry before doing the outer shell, unless you want an outer shell with cracks in it.

Try using a little semolina (1/4 tsp) on the wooden peel before placing the base on it. This helps prevent it sticking, it acts like mini ball bearings to slide around on. Also beware of getting t sauce, o oil or pineapple juice on the peel. It all becomes really easy with a little practice.

We use a bread maker for dough all the time. You can do a batches and store them in the fridge or freezer too. One of the ideal things about it is that you can light the oven, throw on a batch of dough, go back to stoke the fire, open a beer and your fire will be ready at about the same time as your dough.
Good luck,
Dave

[cobblerdave]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

Gudday
Try 200 gm ( yes measured ) dough balls they'll give you a 12 in pizza which is easy to handle and about right for most people to eat. Anything bigger i put in on trays and slide off 1/2 way through to dry out the wet bum, don't do this oftern these days....the customer gets a choise of toppings only.
I use a wooden peel myself with rice flour and slide em off real easy, I also have a mate who will only use a metal one hates wood ....find what works for you.

Regards Dave

[david s]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

Smaller diam bases are also easier to manage. You can graduate to bigger diam and thinner as you get better at it.

[vdubber]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

I read through the official Neapolitan pizza 'standard' it too mentioned separating into separate balls of about 200gms. (or similar). This seems like a good idea and from what I experienced is about half of the dough made by our bread machine. That's what I plan to do next time. Also letting it prove twice makes a much better base but the dough becomes very elastic and hard work. Is there a technique to working the dough when it's elastic like this?

Regarding volume. The bread machine is perfect for up to two pizzas (one load), but without starting some kind of production line is not very good for a big party. Making one lot of dough takes about an hour and half (that's simply how the bread machines program works). I know I can store the dough but I don't really want to waste most of a day making batches of dough when I can simply get my hands dirty (well more sticky really) and make up one massive batch. Time is something that is in short supply in my household.

I will definitely heed everyones advice and let the dome dry out some more before rendering it. After all my hard work I don't want the render to crack.

One of the main issues I found when trying to transfer the pizzas around was simply that I did not have a very good work surface / area. I initially made them up on a bread board, but this was simply too small. I then used the big aluminium pizza tray we bought along with our metal peel, this is where it got stuck After a while I got the hang of it and managed to get them from the tray to the peel to the oven and back again with no issues. The problem was that the tray had a lip and so was a little fiddly to work with. I stopped off today at the local dollar shop and picked up a massive bread board so hopefully things will go a little better next time. Once the work surface has been polished / tiled I will simply make them up directly on the work surface.

I checked the oven this morning as I put the temporary MDF door in last night after we had finished cooking, as expected it's still nice and warm. Not sure what the temp is as I don't have a thermometer. I will pick one up this evening at the wholesalers.

One thing I have found a little hard to locate is a decent brush. I've been looking for a medium / soft bristle wooden brush that I can mount a long handle to - pretty much like an old fashioned wooden dustpan / cobweb brush. I managed to find metal dustpans but the brush still eludes me. Did manage to find a poker / pan / brush set at the local BBQ / Wood fire place but at $200 they can keep them. For that price I would have expected it to at least be made of brass not black iron. Only thing I can think of that might come close is a wallpaper pasting brush.

Might stop at Bunnings tonight and take a look at pasting brushes. Will also pick up some more square bar as I need to make a poker (or two). Definitely more fun making my own tools. The scraper worked a treat moving the coals around; it's simply a bit of square bar with a bit of flat bar welded to the end.

Next up is to make the door. I'm planning on making this out of sheet steel so that it forms a hollow section filled with vermiculite - maybe about 3 inches thick. I will also weld a tube in it so that I can fit an oven thermometer through it.

I'm planning to map out the temp fall off of the oven so that we can figure out when to cook certain dishes. It will also be interesting to find out how well the insulation performs. (well when it's finished). My only concern is that as my flue bends up back over the oven, part of the dome (the part in the flue) is uninsulated. I only realised this when I went to render it. At this stage I had already capped off the flue and so will need to remove the stack and capping to get access to it. Not sure how much impact this will have, but it will obviously have some. I guess the temp map will tell all.

Not too much image wise. Just one snap of my temporary door.

[david s]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

From one batch of dough (500 g flour) we get four pizzas around 10" diam. We find it more convenient to make them this size because they're quicker to prep and handle and my oven is small. If you use 50% oo flour the bases roll out beautifully with very little "springing back"

[vdubber]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

From one batch of dough (500 g flour) we get four pizzas around 10" diam. We find it more convenient to make them this size because they're quicker to prep and handle and my oven is small. If you use 50% oo flour the bases roll out beautifully with very little "springing back"

Do you let the dough prove twice? The second batch of dough we used after only proving once (straight from the machine), it was easier to handle but did not cook as nice. It was not as crispy - more like a typical fast food pizza with a soft base. (not necessarily a bad thing).

I'm intending to buy some 'pizza dough mix' from the local wholesalers (yes that's what is says on the bag). Not sure what it consists of but at $13 for 10 kilos it's worth a try. Previously we simply used white flour, yeast etc.

[david s]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

No, we only let it prove once, cut into dough balls ready to roll out. By the time you are ready to do that they have risen again somewhat. We also add about 7% semolina flour to the initial mix which gives the base a nice crunch.
I use Allied Mills pizza flour, it's cheap and pretty good.

if you cook on trays then moisture will be trapped between the base and the tray resulting in a soggy base. You can do it that way and remove them from the tray and replace the pizza to cook the bottom, but that all takes more handling time and you lose valuable heat having to heat the tray as well, better to place the pizza straight on to the floor of the oven (traditional Italian method).

[vdubber]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

if you cook on trays then moisture will be trapped between the base and the tray resulting in a soggy base. You can do it that way and remove them from the tray and replace the pizza to cook the bottom, but that all takes more handling time and you lose valuable heat having to heat the tray as well, better to place the pizza straight on to the floor of the oven (traditional Italian method).

Yes totally agree. We initially cooked on the tray the first time we fired it up. The oven wasn't particularly hot at this point and the pizza took quite a while to cook, the heat absorbed / wasted in the tray was very obvious. We then decided that direct on the floor was definitely the way to go so bought a mop to clean it down with. Cooking directly on the hearth just seems 'right'.

I will check out the pizza mix at Gaganis Bros. I have a feeling they may make it themselves as I know they mill their own flour. We've bought bread mix from them before which was pretty good. Will let you know how we get on. Looks like pizza for tea again tonight

[cobblerdave]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

Gudday
I gave up on brushes ages ago they just get burnt and the bristles hate the heat....I use a simple mope... strips of cloth wired to the end of a broom handle. Replace them often. Dip in a bucket on water , wring out and give the hearth a wipe... cleans better than a brush. If you think it will effect the heat think again that amount of water will not make 1 bit of difference to a hot hearth.

Regards Dave

[david s]

Re: Adelaide WFO Build

I gave up on the mop ages ago. I just use a length of pipe and blow the ash away from the cooking area. I've found an 8mm stainless steel pipe the ideal tool for this although a 12mm copper pipe will suffice too and is more readily available.
After blowing the ash away I use the semolina cast onto the floor trick to test temp.