Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

I'm pretty sure that the Ancient Roman used pumice for their insulation. There is plenty of it in Pompeii as it's at the base of Mt Vesuvius. They transported tons of the stuff from Pompeii back to Rome to build the dome of the Pantheon, which is still the worlds largest unreinforced dome. Because of the weight in the top part of the dome being a problem they carefully graduated the aggregate and the wall thickness as the dome got higher. The base of the walls are 7 metres thick from memory.

Pumice would be perfect for that use David. "The rock that floats" is very light weight, and strong as well since its honeycombed. I guess that comes from the release of gas while its lava, but not sure. Thanks for this history! I had no idea...

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

I've got a question for you guys. As cobbler said the heat might not get down to the pizza from up high. So I'm starting with no soldier course. Just had an idea to bring the floor up. Usually the floor is laid out and then the dome built on top. What if I built the dome off the pictured recent pour and then laid out the brick floor within the finished dome? That would mean its 25" floor to ceiling instead of 27".


Thoughts?

[wotavidone]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

I've got a question for you guys. As cobbler said the heat might not get down to the pizza from up high. So I'm starting with no soldier course. Just had an idea to bring the floor up. Usually the floor is laid out and then the dome built on top. What if I built the dome off the pictured recent pour and then laid out the brick floor within the finished dome? That would mean its 25" floor to ceiling instead of 27".


Thoughts?

Definitely do that.

A 2 inch layer of insulation with the bricks on top of that would make it 23 inches.

[david s]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Doing that way also enables you to replace floor bricks if need be. Leave about a 6 mm gap between the floor bricks and the dome to allow for expanding floor bricks.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Definitely do that.

A 2 inch layer of insulation with the bricks on top of that would make it 23 inches.

The only insulation I have is perlite. I've seen folks making floor insulation out of 5 perlite to 1 portland. That's right under the brick. When the heat gets down there and weakens the portland, what keeps the perlite together?

I could do another 2" of the mix I already made but its got clay and silicate and lime in it. Those things add strength when hot but detract from insulating ability. I'm concerned I'm just making more mass to heat with a minimal gain in inches closer to the ceiling.

I'm willing to do that but I would need there to be a few more folks here telling me the loss would be worth the gain.

Anyone?

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Doing that way also enables you to replace floor bricks if need be. Leave about a 6 mm gap between the floor bricks and the dome to allow for expanding floor bricks.

Sounds like a win/win. I'll do it.

What do you think of the above idea Dave?

[wotavidone]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

The only insulation I have is perlite. I've seen folks making floor insulation out of 5 perlite to 1 portland. That's right under the brick. When the heat gets down there and weakens the portland, what keeps the perlite together?

I could do another 2" of the mix I already made but its got clay and silicate and lime in it. Those things add strength when hot but detract from insulating ability. I'm concerned I'm just making more mass to heat with a minimal gain in inches closer to the ceiling.

I'm willing to do that but I would need there to be a few more folks here telling me the loss would be worth the gain.

Anyone?

Nah, on reflection just stick your bricks inside the dome and go with the 25 inches. Keep it simple.

There is one thing I have learned:

No matter how much you think you want a pizza oven, you will want to cook other stuff in it, Filipino Pig for example.
At that point, you simply will not care whether the oven is perfectly optimised for pizza. IMHO, just about anything with a fire and a roof will cook a reasonable pizza, so you might as well make sure the oven has the room to do the other things you want it to do.

[david s]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

The only insulation I have is perlite. I've seen folks making floor insulation out of 5 perlite to 1 portland. That's right under the brick. When the heat gets down there and weakens the portland, what keeps the perlite together?

I could do another 2" of the mix I already made but its got clay and silicate and lime in it. Those things add strength when hot but detract from insulating ability. I'm concerned I'm just making more mass to heat with a minimal gain in inches closer to the ceiling.

I'm willing to do that but I would need there to be a few more folks here telling me the loss would be worth the gain.

Anyone?

No, I don't think you need do anything more. A straight Portland and perlite against the floor bricks works ok and any degradation's only on the surface millimetre or so. The temperature drops off pretty quickly any deeper. As you have added lime and clay to your mix as well I doubt whether there will be any degradation. Forge on my son.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Nah, on reflection just stick your bricks inside the dome and go with the 25 inches. Keep it simple.

There is one thing I have learned:

No matter how much you think you want a pizza oven, you will want to cook other stuff in it, Filipino Pig for example.

"Lechon Boboy" (sp)

Its really good wot.

I was searching for a pic of a roast pig-on-a-stick but I can't find one. Instead I found a pic of Lancer bonding with the mixer from maybe 5-6 years ago when all the projects started...



Mixer looks the same anyway.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

No, I don't think you need do anything more. A straight Portland and perlite against the floor bricks works ok and any degradation's only on the surface millimetre or so. The temperature drops off pretty quickly any deeper. As you have added lime and clay to your mix as well I doubt whether there will be any degradation. Forge on my son.

I'll go this route...dad.... Besides if I set the bricks inside the oven I can always pull them out and pour a couple inches more. I'll wait and learn how the oven works first. One thing I like is toasted cheese so it really is still up in the air so to speak.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Something else I like about wot's idea. The pictured pour was not on top of a floor but had to have the structural strength to span the distance between the pumice. Now there is a floor. From what Dave says the 5 to 1 mix works. An additional pour would just sit on the floor. It would provide better insulation and not adding much mass to heat as I thought earlier because it doesn't have clay etc.

So, I'm not adverse to doing the pour anymore but I'll wait and see what the oven does when working. If I can avoid losing the space, good. However if it doesn't toast the cheese I have a go-to plan.

Thanks to all you guys for the good advice.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Gudday lancer
Sometimes you have to look and think at things a bit different
You don't have to build the hearth inside the dome
You build the hearth first get it to shape ... Then build the dome outside the h earth. Use some cardboard on the outer edge of the hearth to get you 5mm gap, stops dropped mortar from filling it up, burns out later. That gap will fill in with ash.

I know I built with a soldier course course the 8 in part of the brick up.
But Lay the brick floor on the 3 in side up.
Then start your dome with the bricks laid on the 4 in side up so you have no mortar gap at floor level to take out with your peel.
Regards dave

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Great idea Cobbler. I'll likely build the floor of the oven first but not around the door as that's easy to reach. Thanks for this advice!

Definitely am going to try to minimize the mass I need to heat.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

We're up to 4 (now 5) courses and the door is figured out as well as the location of the 2 chimney supporting arches. The outer supporting arch will be 4" longer span than the inner supporting arch as I don't want to come straight out but open the oven at an angle on both sides to make the interior a bit more visible and accessible. In other words, widen the outer part of the door a bit. Only 2" wider on both sides for the outer arch. The top of both arches is flattened with additional brick so it doesn't matter as long as they are at the same level.

Remember this chimney will be brick as our amigo Brickie wisely suggested. (Where are you amigo?) So the arches will be far enough apart to allow 1 1/2" overlap of the spanning bricks of the chimney. Then the chimney will curve back along the dome to the top then go straight up. So, the chimney will be 5" wide but as long as I want it.

I have some ideas but, with a 54" wide oven and a 5" wide chimney how long would you make the chimney?

[oasiscdm]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Hey Lancer

Pictures please

and check octoforno build and my build as the landing you are referring is a flared entry we both did this for the same reason [if I have got your description correct].

My outer landing arches wrap around the entry arch but never touches it and is also insulated from the dome. The rebate into the entry arch is around 25mm only. So basically a full brick reveal.

That way you have full view of the inside from any angle.