Oh, the Humanity!!

[lwood]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Chem Eng here too. Why do we have so many Chem Engs on this forum? Missing the organic chemistry lab, I guess. Yes just look at "wrong dimensions" thread.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Check out " help wrong dimentions" in the guidline section ot the forum
I will not say any more just check it out

Regards Dave

[C5dad]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Amen to watching your tradesmen! I have countless stories of changes made without approval which cause nothing but headaches due to "experience". Some work, but many do not.

When I spec'ed out the plumbing in my house, the plumber (40 years experience) told my wife we did not need 3/4 inch back to the kids section (after I told him to put it in due to design considerations of how the plumbing is routed).

She heard saving some money and went with the 1/2 inch piping. Now, since the plumbing is buried, and the kids cannot have their showers at the same time, I am looking at re-piping almost 70 feet due to this $50 savings. Thank goodness for PEX - it will cost me around $250 and a days worth of labor to correct. I will do it myself correctly.

And no, I am not a plumber/mason/etc. I are a Chemical Engineer who designs and installs stuff all the time for the Mine I work at (along with too many other details that I love to do!)

[lwood]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Ts, you obviously know what you are doing and why. And as you point out ONLY a hand-full are capable of designing an oven of this sort. Ken, I think you have a point that you cannot just leave this up to any old mason. You have to watch the building and be certain that the plans are followed. My experience is that the tradesmen usually think they know more than the Architect or Engineer.

I remember when we were investigating the Challenger space shuttle incident. Someone decided to allow the rubber o-rings to soak in TCE rather than just wipe them down and dry prior to installation. We proved that a 30 minute soak in TCE could replicate the incident. Someone thinking they are doing something a better way isn't always better. If you are using one of these masons from the site you can bet they know what they are doing, but just one off the street I wouldn't trust to do the right thing without proper supervision.

[Tscarborough]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Exactly. My oven shares nothing in common with the FB plans other than the concept of a highly insulated wood-fired heat soak. For general use, the FB DESIGN is superior to mine, but I had slightly different goals in building mine.

[Ken524]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

The above is a broad generalization, because there are at least 3 professional masons that I know of on this board who can and do design and build wonderful ovens.

I agree completely and didn't mean for my comment to sound like a generalization. My (perhaps poorly made) point was that when folks start deviating from the fundamental concepts of the plans, we start to hear about problems.

[Tscarborough]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

It is not strange to me. Skilled masons know how to lay brick, block and stone. They do not design the structures they build, nor do they specify what materials and anchoring systems are to be used. In my experience, most masons are not real knowledgeable about the whys of what they do, nor do they need to be, since they normally get no say in the matter. Their skill is the technical skill of putting units in the wall in an efficient manner.

The above is a broad generalization, because there are at least 3 professional masons that I know of on this board who can and do design and build wonderful ovens. Of the several thousand other masons I know professionally, however, there may be a 1/2 dozen who could do so.

edit- To clarify, 1/2 dozen who could design an oven from scratch. Any competent mason should be able to build a perfect oven from the FB plans.

[Ken524]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Interesting that we've had two reports in the last 2 or 3 days of hired professional masons building ovens with serious flaws (and many other similar reports over the last few years). In almost every situation the "pro" deviated from the plans based on his own "experience"... Oops.

I can't think of one amateur builder on here that has had anything but excellent results by carefully following the plans.

Get some HeatStop50 and rebuild it on your own. I had never even picked up a brick before I started my oven. You really CAN do it!

[Tscarborough]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

I would have to see some pics and references of finished ovens before I would let a random mason build one for me. And I would make sure they followed the FB plans exactly.

[eprante]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Good luck wit the next one, I would recommend getting a HF saw, home brew mortar, tapering the bricks and doing it yourself ( it cant possibly come out worse)
Eric

[Tscarborough]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

It depends. All masons are not fireplace or oven masons. Some masons lay only rock, some lay brick, some do it all.

[Tman1]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

If you told the mason what to build, it isn't his deal. I run across this often with fireplaces "designed" by architects. The mason builds it as drawn, and when it doesn't work the architect and GC want to blame the mason because he is an expert at building fireplaces. And he is an expert at BUILDING them, not designing them.

Wouldn't you expect that he at least knew the right mortar or mix to use, or give some sort of guidance? I wish I could fall back on ' you told me to do it that way' when something goes wrong. (which hasn't happened, but i won't build something for someone if I know it's going to fail, but maybe that's just me)

I should also add, that if you had a friend do it, this entire point is moot. I had a buddy that said he'd help me with projects (for free), then added, I'll make sure you get what you pay for, and I'll pay you back double if it goes wrong!

[Tscarborough]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Flat arches are fine, you just have to realize that they will have more outward thrust and allow for that force. All arches exhibit this, some more than others. For an unengineered arch, err on the side of more mass.

[OscarA]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Good to see you are rebuilding. On the bright side you know if the previous size was adequate for your needs so this new build will be exactly what you want. I'm building a 33" oven and have no idea if it's to big or small for my needs.
Thanks for sharing I'm sure there are many of us out there who will change our arch plans due to your post.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Greg
I feel your pain... You a very gutsey bloke for posting that one.. thanks
You still have the stand, you still have he bricks.....
I've always wanted to build a secound oven.... think of it this way. You have the stand already build the bricks sourced and cut... your many steps ahead already

Good luck
Cobbler dave