Oven sizing question

[Lburou]

Re: Oven sizing question

I'll have to look into it some more. I do not really need to put them thru the door vertically. Only to hang them inside that way. So, should the door be a bit lower I do not think it would be a problem. Inside I really will just need a short iron bar going from one side to the other, to hand the skewers onto.
I do not anticipate doing duck more than once or twice a year so I don't want to get too ambitious with modifications.

Don't forget the bricks at the entry to the oven will be hot enough to burn you when at cooking temperatures....Something to remember as you are placing ducks in position to cook

I am 80% finished with a one meter dome. For an increased oven opening height, I elevated my dome gage two inches to make the peak of the dome two inches higher....That made my dome to oven door ratio allow an oven opening of 13.75 inches. We used a soldier course of half bricks for the first chain. The oven opening is 18.75 inches wide.
HTH

[Filthymutt]

Re: Oven sizing question

Well from what I have seen, I think in the Indian oven, which is vertical with an open top like the ovens of Kashgar (Kashii) which I posted pictures of earlier, rather than being suspended from a bar the meat is just placed on skewers which are put into the oven vertically and kind of just lean on the top rim for support.
The bar that I mentioned though seems standard in the duck roasting ovens here in China that I have seen so far.

[Jayson]

Re: Oven sizing question

Hi Filthymutt,

I love your idea for the horizontal bar to hang ducks from. If I am correct (maybe someone can veryify) I think Indian tandoor ovens also cook chicken pieces on metal skewers hung from the top of the oven. Your idea of the bar would be great for both roast duck or tandoor chicken. Has anyone else fitted such a horizontal bar?

[Filthymutt]

Re: Oven sizing question

Hi L,
Na, not as yet. Everything is basically shut down over here for the Chinese (Lunar) New Year. Especially anything to do with building materials, etc. All businesses closed a minimum of two weeks, some for a month. My kid had 5 weeks off from school this year.
I was not sure if Japan did the same or not. Being so close and given their ancient ties to China I figured they must do the Lunar New Year too. And since your guy's contact is over here it would not help to contact him 'til all this was finished and then try. Maybe after about another week.
DD

[Laurentius]

Re: Oven sizing question

HI DIRTYDOG,

Were you able to make the contact with Amos, concerning the ceramic fiber products?

[Filthymutt]

Re: Oven sizing question

Thanks Karl, Chris,
As far as the ducks go really there is no need for me to put them through the door vertically. I can put them on the skewer while in the kitchen then put them through, horizontally hook end first and then just swing them up and hook them to the bar. (Wearing some good insulated gloves I am sure).
Then just slide a drip pan underneath.

Appreciate the info as always. These forums are fantastic. I am sure a life saver for many builders.

Chris, I am sorry but it is going to be a long wait. Our new house up in Beijing will not be ready for occupancy for 9 months yet. We will move up there in July and rent a place until it is done. I am hoping that I will be able to get into the back yard by mid July and start building the oven so I can have it in use by the time we move in in October. I am sure I can once we get up there. This is China, they are not strict about things like that at all.

I will be posting more for sure. Lots of questions between now and then. And I will do my best to post updates like I have seen others do.

Thanks all!

[SCChris]

Re: Oven sizing question

Mutt, Best to you and yours. I'm looking forward to what you end up doing..

Chris

[kmrice]

Re: Oven sizing question

My 42" (interior diameter) Forno Bravo has a door 16" high. Three 12" pizzas fit just fine, with plenty of room for the fire, but, as others have said, I doubt you'll actually have 3 in at once. You could fit 4 in if you wanted to, and they could be larger than 12", but it is extremely unlikely you would ever do it. It would take a professional to handle that many at once; you'd have to be putting them in every 30 seconds to get four in before the first one is done. They cook in about 90 seconds, so there would be no significant wait between pies, even if you did them one at a time. I prep while my son cooks, and we almost never have more than two pies in the oven at one time and do 16 pizzas in less than 40 minutes.

A 23 lb turkey fits in just fine, or 20 or more pounds of bread. I don't know how wide the door is but it's a lot wider than any duck. Or turkey. The door height is the limitation for your vertical ducks. Due to the laws of physics or something equally complicated, your door should not be higher than a certain percentage of your dome height, and your dome height should not be greater than a certain percentage of your floor diameter, so, unless you build a really huge oven (which would take a really huge amount of wood a really huge amount of time to get up to temperature) you won't be able get the ducks through the door vertically. I can get a beer can chicken in vertically, but I there wouldn't be room for a duck hanging from a rack.You would probably be able to rig something up so you can slide them in horizontally and then hang them up from a rack inside the oven, or something, I don't know.

Follow the Forno Bravo plans carefully; vary the dimensions at your peril. It seems to me that a very high percentage of people on this forum who have performance problems have failed to follow the plans. These ovens have been built for thousands of years, and the optimal dimensions are pretty well settled. Varying them can lead to poor performance, excessive time and wood needed to get to temperature, or both.

Karl

[Filthymutt]

Re: Oven sizing question

Also, I do remember how surprised I was when I saw how fast Pizzas were cooking in the WFO.
Two years ago I spent 6 weeks in Italy on a training course for a new aircraft our company bought. It was in a fairly small town outside of Milan and all the little Pizza shops had brick ovens. I remember walking in and placing an order and being shocked by just how fast I got my Pizza. It was like the guy put it in, blinked twice and took it out!
And the pizzas there were sooo good! Six weeks and 7 kg later I arrived back home and have missed those pizzas ever since. I would've been back there this month on a week long refresher course and enjoying those pizzas again, but funny thing, since I gave my notice at work in preparation for our move up north the company didn't want to pay me to go on another course, bummer.

I truly hope I can do similar when this oven is up and running...

[Filthymutt]

Re: Oven sizing question

Since I am in China, and have gotten addicted to Beijing Roast Duck I will likely end up trying to do it their way most of the time.
For BJD the bird is normally cooked twice. 1st it is roasted just long enough to get the skin to its nice crispy texture and full of flavor from that thin fatty layer just below the skin, mmm... Then ducky is removed from the oven. The skin, some of which is trimmed very thin with no fat attached will then be put on one plate. Then more skin cut with much of the fat still in place is placed onto another plate and then both put on your table before returning ducky to the oven to continue cooking. Later, after you've finished with the first course the rest of the duck will be brought out prepared into different dishes all the way to the ending duck soup which is normally served at the end of the meal as opposed to the western way of having it before.
I am looking forward to getting this oven built so I can start cooking! Hopefully I will shed a few pounds with all the hard work of building in order to give myself a bit of a cushion. So, when the food starts coming out I don't end up too much heavier than when I started!

[mklingles]

Re: Oven sizing question

I do duck in a roasting pan on a bed of root vegetables in my 42" oven. After 10-20 min I take out the pan and drain the fat. Then return to finish cooking. Duck is good. Vegetables are amazing.

I do ~14" pizzas in my 42" (inside diameter) oven. Two at a time. I've done 3 smaller pies. They cook much faster then in a conventional oven.

[Filthymutt]

Re: Oven sizing question

I'll have to look into it some more. I do not really need to put them thru the door vertically. Only to hang them inside that way. So, should the door be a bit lower I do not think it would be a problem. Inside I really will just need a short iron bar going from one side to the other, to hand the skewers onto.
I do not anticipate doing duck more than once or twice a year so I don't want to get too ambitious with modifications.

[SCChris]

Re: Oven sizing question

I suppose you could modify the hemisphere of the dome up and that would also push the door up. You could a run full soldier ring and then start a full hemisphere. If it were done with US 2.25 by 4.5 by 9 inch bricks the central high point of the dome would end up about 28 inches rather than 21 for a normal build 42 inch dome and the door would be 18 and change. That would allow you to push a roast pan with a rack and the ducks thru the door.

C

PS you'd still have great pizzas with the high celing. I always end up finishing my pizzas by raising them up into the dome anyway.

[Filthymutt]

Re: Oven sizing question

Vertical is the only way when it comes to duck. Too much fat, it needs to drip off. A typical duck is maybe 12 - 14 inches long, So a 22 inch dome should be ok. I suppose if my calculations are ok you will lose 1.5 inches in height for every inch you go off center.
Given a skewer for the duck with a couple inches on either end to give ducky a skewered length of 16 - 18 inches, and you put a short bar across the top to hang from maybe an inch below the top of the dome, it should be ok for one to three ducks I am guessing.
Realistically all I suppose I need is room for one duck per five people. So two if you have guests over. Should be fine thanks

[SCChris]

Re: Oven sizing question

If you go vertical on the ducks. How much vertical space are you going to need? The door is going to be a trick. My oven is about 22 high in the middle, so the door is 14.75", unless my duck is short I'll have to bring it in on its side and then hang it from some sort of frame to drip into a pan.

Chris