Oven Floor question

[EP-1550]

Re: Oven Floor question

Dmun,
thanks for all of the advice.
Yes, my oven is outside and there might be a bit of infiltration from the sides of the stones and maybe a little from where the oven connects with the granite counters of my outdoor kitchen.

I had a guy that has good experience with outdoor kitchen's and ovens take a look and he applied a better seal to the structure and where the dome meets the granite.

He also did recommend to elevate the floor with firebricks...he thinks that my door opening is too big the the size of my oven and gave me a couple options to think about.

The other items that he mentioned was to lay the bricks on a 50-50 mix of regular sand and fireclay sand. IS THIS NORMAL? isn't it dangerous to leave dry Fireclay sand exposed at the bottom of the oven...even with bricks on top I know that Fireclay sand needs some special care...

[EP-1550]

Re: Oven Floor question

Hi LeoL,
I'm in Bloomfield.
you?

[LeoL]

Re: Oven Floor question

Hi EP. I am from Michigan as well and just started my WFO project. Which area of the state are you in?

[shuboyje]

Re: Oven Floor question

In a brick oven pizza setting with an open flame this is actually pretty cold, and not a temperature I would expect leoparding at, but more of an even browning. Depending on dome height all ovens are in balance at a different temperature, but most people run at a hearth temperature of at least 750F. The traditional ovens built in naples with low domes are generally run at 900+F on the floor.

Thanks stonylake,
The 4 floor bricks are not loose, the oven was built on top of them...
Maybe I'm overeating, but the reason i want to do this is because I fell like the dough crust is getting done while the bottom of the dough does not show the "brown spots"...

It might be that I'm cooking the pizza too close to the fire or a combo of both.
The floor gets very hot...about 700F when I move the fire to the side and then a constant 550 to 600...

I just had a much bigger oven before and i'm still trying to get used to this little guy.

Thanks,

[dmun]

Re: Oven Floor question

Maybe I'm overeating, but the reason i want to do this is because I fell like the dough crust is getting done while the bottom of the dough does not show the "brown spots"...

It might be that I'm cooking the pizza too close to the fire or a combo of both.
The floor gets very hot...about 700F when I move the fire to the side and then a constant 550 to 600...

I just had a much bigger oven before and i'm still trying to get used to this little guy.

There shouldn't be a problem getting leoparding in a small oven. I have a 36 and it takes some skill to avoid outright charring if I have flames going up the side of the oven.

This may be a dumb question, but this sure sounds like a wet insulation situation. Is your oven outside? Is there any chance of water infiltration from rain?

[Lburou]

Re: Oven Floor question

I wouldn't be surprised of your answer isn't in this thread

[EP-1550]

Re: Oven Floor question

"So, if i add the firebricks on top of my exisiting floor, will I have better results? "

Without insulation underneath you won't get really good results. In addition, raising the floor may upset the dome height to door height ratio (optimum 0.63), resulting in decreased efficiency.

Neil thanks for the feedback.
I was told that the door opening is too large for this oven...
So i guess that wouldn't be a bad thing.

As far as the insulation, can I lay insulation on top of the existing floor and then lay the firebricks...or maybe instead of firebricks i could use splits.

Also like I said on my other reply...is not that the floor is not heating up, I'm just not getting the same results with the end product as i did with my much larger oven.

Thx

[EP-1550]

Re: Oven Floor question

so, are the 4 floor bricks laid loose inside the oven? if so, and you are thinking about putting a layer of firebrick over them... wouldn't you be ahead of the game to just lift your current floor out and put a layer of 2" ceramic insulation under it?

Thanks stonylake,
The 4 floor bricks are not loose, the oven was built on top of them...
Maybe I'm overeating, but the reason i want to do this is because I fell like the dough crust is getting done while the bottom of the dough does not show the "brown spots"...

It might be that I'm cooking the pizza too close to the fire or a combo of both.
The floor gets very hot...about 700F when I move the fire to the side and then a constant 550 to 600...

I just had a much bigger oven before and i'm still trying to get used to this little guy.

Thanks,

[Neil2]

Re: Oven Floor question

"So, if i add the firebricks on top of my exisiting floor, will I have better results? "

Without insulation underneath you won't get really good results. In addition, raising the floor may upset the dome height to door height ratio (optimum 0.63), resulting in decreased efficiency.

[stonylake]

Re: Oven Floor question

so, are the 4 floor bricks laid loose inside the oven? if so, and you are thinking about putting a layer of firebrick over them... wouldn't you be ahead of the game to just lift your current floor out and put a layer of 2" ceramic insulation under it?

[dmun]

Re: Oven Floor question

So, if i add the firebricks on top of my exisiting floor, will I have better results?

You'll add thermal mass, which may or not be good depending on what's there now. On the other hand, you won't see exactly what you have in insulation underneath, which may be more important than the exact composition and thickness of your cooking floor.

His recomendation was to use just a little sand on top of the exisiting floor and dry-fit the bricks inside the over. Easier to remove if necessary...

Plain sand is a little shifty for a leveling medium. We mix it half and half with fireclay, which is more likely to stay put.

[EP-1550]

Re: Oven Floor question

I'm actually in Bloomfield Hills and I did find a supplier in Novi.
The guy actually has an oven himself...not very common in this part of the State, but he seems to know his trade.

I'm going to swing by on Tuesday.

His recomendation was to use just a little sand on top of the exisiting floor and dry-fit the bricks inside the over. Easier to remove if necessary...

Thanks everyone for the great feedback and ideas.

I can't wait to fire up the oven for the 2011 season.

[stonylake]

Re: Oven Floor question

so, where in Michigan? there is a great supplier in GR, Industrial Firebrick on Ann Street. you can get larger brick there for your floor if you don't want as many seams. they also have several thicknesses of ceramic insulation and sell it by the piece

[EP-1550]

Re: Oven Floor question

Thanks for the information...that is very helpful.
So, if i add the firebricks on top of my exisiting floor, will I have better results?

Thanks!

[dmun]

Re: Oven Floor question

As to the brick question, the ordinary firebricks that are sold at a brickyard or masonry supply (not one of the big box stores) are low duty firebricks, and are the ones you want. There are medium and high duty bricks available at refractory suppliers, and these are generally considered overkill at our operating temperatures. Depending on what your insulation layer is, the floor bricks are either laid flat, without mortar, on the insulation, or if the insulating surface is rough, a layer of sand and fireclay is laid down as a leveling medium. Floor bricks aren't mortared in place.

Now, this is very important. I suspect that your floor is not giving you the results you want, not because of the composition of the floor sectors (which in many cases is the same material as firebricks) but there is inadequate insulation underneath it. Between your masonry support layer and your oven floor there should either be two inches of refractory insulation board (which is a dense, fibrous, usually buff colored material) or four inches of vermiculite concrete (This is a grey, cork like, crumbly layer). Without proper insulation layer (or damp insulation, which is another topic) your floor won't give you the leoparding that you want.