Sourdough Starter

[WJW]

Re: Sourdough Starter

I'll be curious to hear Jay's take. If that temp was 550, something is off.

For one thing it looks like there wasn't much (or any) steam in the oven. Are you doing anything to add steam?

In spite of what you say about temp, it looks like it was too cool. Is it possible that you were at 550 on loading but were not heat saturated so that temps fell off dramatically?

Is it possible that you were over proofed to the point that there was very little sugar left in the crust to carmelize?

What's the crumb look like?

Bill

[Les]

Re: Sourdough Starter

OK - this was a disaster. Jay's recommendations on proof / rise time gave me a lot of wiggle room for the oven heat. I slid the bread in around 550 deg ( The FB recipe called for that at 22 minutes) I had the bread in for around 45 minutes and it was / still is a putrid white. I put some butter on it to give it some color but this is NOT what I was looking for. It may taste good but it looks like crap!

Jay it was my bad that I didn't adjust to our altitude - this was way wet. I had no reason to slash the boule's because they stuck to the baskets.

I will try again once I understand what went horribly wrong... Or I may just stick to pizza and steaks.

[WJW]

Re: Sourdough Starter

As far as timing Les...I found it's easier to get it right by focusing on getting the oven to the right temp early.

By "right temp" I mean hearth of around 570. Assuming you oven is heat-loaded, it can wait a long time and still be good to go. Even if it slowly drops to 550 over a couple of hours...you're still good to go.

On the other hand, if you're two hours early with your bread....you've got real problems.

All that seems obvious, but for some reason it didn't really sink in for me until someone on here made the point.

Bill

[Les]

Re: Sourdough Starter

Thanks Jay - I'm going to give it a try. I might scale it down a bit since this will be my first effort in the oven. I'm sure it's going to take a couple of tries to get the oven to temp the same time the dough is ready. It would be nice if these things had a knob...

[texassourdough]

Re: Sourdough Starter

My approach is really pretty simple. Start with 100% hydration starter. If it is robust, start with 100 grams of starter (feed the residual as is normal). If it is not robust (stored and not used too long) then I will feed it once or twice to make sure it is robust. Let's assume it is really bad...

Two days before baking after dinner - feed it 4 to 1. (say 25 grams of starter, 50 grams of flour and 50 grams of water). Leave it on the counter all night.

Next morning - baking day minus one - feed it again the same ratios. Probably don't want so much starter so take 50 grams of starter and feed it with 100 of flour and 100 of starter. Leave it out all day. That evening it should be really active and robust.

Night before baking (start here if the starter is robust). Take 100 grams of starter, and add 200 grams of water, stir, add 200 grams of flour. My base recipe uses really 100 grams of good whole wheat (King Arthur Organic or fresh milled by me) and 100 grams of King Arthur AP (or whatever brand you use). Leave it out overnight.

On the morning you plan to bake the levain should be just about peaking. (Ideally it will be slightly puffed up on the edges and slightly depressed in the center - that tells you it is near peak) I have 500 grams of levain and I want to quadruple that so I will be adding 2000 grams of flour and water to make 2.5 kg of dough. To make 70% hydration dough I will want 1470 total grams of flour (2500/1.70 - the hydration plus 1) and 1030 total grams of water. I subtract out the water and flour in the levain (250 each) and that means I need to add 1220 grams of flour and 780 grams of water to the levain. Will also need 30 grams of salt (2% of 1470). (I am giving you the logic so you can follow the same logic and adjust the batch size.)

I mix that by hand for about five minutes. Let it rest about ten or twenty and finish kneading it till it feels right. Bulk ferment for about three or four hours depending on the temp. Divide the dough shape the boules. They will typically need about 2 1/2 to 4 hours depending on the temp. Bake at about 450 in my cloches - 20 minutes covered and 28 or so uncovered.

That's a pretty short version but that is what I do!

Jay

[Les]

Re: Sourdough Starter

Feeding equal amounts by weight (by that I assume you mean same weight of starter, water, and flour) are good feeding ratios for storage but I find higher multiples (like my 1:2:2 better for getting ready to bake. Sounds like your revived starter is really happy!

Bake On!
Jay

Jay,

What is you normal batch of dough and do you add any yeast? I know that sounds like blasphemy but I have seen it in a couple of different books.

Thanks,

Les...

[Les]

Re: Sourdough Starter

Thanks for the input!

[texassourdough]

Re: Sourdough Starter

Feeding equal amounts by weight (by that I assume you mean same weight of starter, water, and flour) are good feeding ratios for storage but I find higher multiples (like my 1:2:2 better for getting ready to bake. Sounds like your revived starter is really happy!

Bake On!
Jay

[Les]

Re: Sourdough Starter

I started getting activity after the first feeding. It started getting really active around four or 5 days. I am feeding it equal amounts by weight. I may be off on the time because I really wasn't paying that much attention. I just know that yesterday I fed it, came back a while later and it had expanded onto the counter. I have already made bread (using a conventional oven) and it taste pretty good.

[texassourdough]

Re: Sourdough Starter

Hi Les!

How many days did it take to get your frozen starter going? Having never done it you will be a reference data point!

WRT feeding...and activity...something seems to be amiss. In my experience a sourdough starter can't "go crazy" in an hour. That kind of behaviour sounds like bacteria. What kind of feeding ratio are you using... I feed 1 part starter with 2 parts flour and 2 parts water by weight and it takes mine at least a couple of hours to show much life at all - even when robust. Are you using warm water... It could be that you are getting a bacterial rise because the good, acidic bacteria haven't taken over the starter yet. If so it is important to keep feeding until they take over.

[TropicalCoasting]

Re: Sourdough Starter

I never really worry as long as its alive
By adding it to the rest of the flour you are activating it again
I usually like to give mine 2 feeds over 2 days to get it going after its spent some time in the fridge.
The crucial rise is the one before the oven

[Les]

Re: Sourdough Starter

Another question regarding sourdough starter. All the recipes call for x amount of active starter. After I feed it the starter gets crazy active in an hour or so then settles down a bit. What is the best time to use it? Shouldn't I wait for some time before I use it?

TIA

[Les]

Re: Sourdough Starter

Thanks Jay! I found the old thread and was able to bring it back to life. I just hydrated what I had in the freezer then started to feed it. Baked the first loaves last night (in the house oven) and it tasted pretty good. The snow is supposed to leave by the weekend so I am planning on firing up the oven to see how that turns out. Thanks again...

[texassourdough]

Re: Sourdough Starter

Hi Les!

There is no real "formula" for rejuvenating frozen starter. I would add it to about an equal amount of water by weight. I would assume it is only a couple of grams. Then I would add only a few times (2 to 4x) of flour and equal of water to keep it at about 100% hydration. The key is that your frozen starter will innoculate the dough with a much higher dose of bugs than are in the flour so they should take over quickly relative to having to build the bug population up and then have the acidity to build up to the point where the bad bugs are killed and the good bugs take over. So you will probably need three or four/five days of twice a day feeding to get a robust starter instead of weeks or months from scratch. Be sure your water is dechlorinated! (Either left out a day or two or reverse osmosis or bottled but not distilled.)

Good luck!
Jay

[Les]

Re: Sourdough Starter

Most important is keeping isolation from the local air.

How in the hell do you do that - I don't live in a vacuum.