45.1˚C here today

[TropicalCoasting]

Re: 45.1˚C here today

The Sanctuary is the scene of an ongoing controversy between Australia and Japan over whaling.
In 2008 the Australian Federal Court ruled it was illegal under Australian law for the Japanese whaling fleet to kill whales in the Sanctuary.

And we worry they are getting rammed or doing the ramming ???

[wotavidone]

Re: 45.1˚C here today

And we worry they are getting rammed or doing the ramming ???

What are you quoting?
However, in answer to your question, I worry about such things.
Ramming ships puts life at risk. Human life, which to me is the paramount consideration.
People who are prepared to put animal lives over human life are too extreme for me.
I've been doing more research, and the latest effort is actually from the Sea Shepherd organisation, founded by Paul Watson after Greenpeace kicked him out for being too extreme.
Apparently Greenpeace haven't collided with a Japanese whaling ship since 2006. Kicking him out is a point for Greenpeace, in my opinion, hence my deletion of my posts on the subject.
They too reckon Sea Shepherd are wrong risking human life to protect animals. See their website.
Of course, it was their actions back in the day, which occurred only a few years after I gained my own commercial marine ticket and was thus well aware of the laws of the sea, that first alerted me to the fact that all the footage being released can be interpreted more than one way.
I stand by my analysis of the rights and wrongs of the incidents in the Southern Ocean, I withdraw it only because I unfairly laid the latest incident at the feet of Greenpeace.
Mind you, I still told the three Greenpeace activists who accosted me in the street today that I reckon they are a bunch of hypocrites.

[Greenman]

Re: 45.1˚C here today

Might be time for people to get a grip. It is all about the exploitation of resources (wherever they are) for the personal gain of someone and their cronies who fund this hunting. Pantagonian Tooth Fish, Krill, Whales, Orange Roughy - all will be endangered soon enough. It is all about greed.

Might be time to piss all of the harvesters with the huge factory ships off out of the last of the frontiers before they want to drill/mine and generally stuff the place. How long will it take for people to learn that when it is gone...... it is gone.

Watson got too hot to handle but the rogues need a bit more than a bump in the night to let them know that they are not welcome. The French had their own way of letting Greenpeace know they were unhappy when they took things into their own hands in NZ. Good for the goose............. TIFI

[wotavidone]

Re: 45.1˚C here today

Might be time for people to get a grip. It is all about the exploitation of resources (wherever they are) for the personal gain of someone and their cronies who fund this hunting. Pantagonian Tooth Fish, Krill, Whales, Orange Roughy - all will be endangered soon enough. It is all about greed.

Might be time to piss all of the harvesters with the huge factory ships off out of the last of the frontiers before they want to drill/mine and generally stuff the place. How long will it take for people to learn that when it is gone...... it is gone.

Watson got too hot to handle but the rogues need a bit more than a bump in the night to let them know that they are not welcome. The French had their own way of letting Greenpeace know they were unhappy when they took things into their own hands in NZ. Good for the goose............. TIFI

Well if the Japs kill all the whales, the whales be won't be eating the Krill.

But seriously, the French were way out of line. It gets back to what I've been saying - people should not kill people over the environment. I have no time for extremists on any side of the equation. And that is a sad thing - there are sides.

From the greenie who gets his little patch of paradise in a forest somewhere, then protests like buggery when some developer wants to build houses for other people who like the area too, or wind turbines to generate some electricity, to the rich man who buys a length of coastline and does his level best to stop anyone else using "his" beach, to the person who just has to wash his car every week and buy the latest phone even though his old one still works, to the person who chooses to live "only" an hours drive from work, we all selfishly exploit resources.

When we build a brick oven, someone fired those bricks, just about guaranteed they didn't use a renewable energy source to do it, ditto the cement and the lime. If we cared at a personal level, we'd build a cob oven with clay we dug ourselves on-site and not use up so much non-renewable energy.
At least mine, and the one I built with my mate, was built from salvaged pavers, I guess.

I don't like factory ships either. But the question remains, would they be out there if no-one was buying the fish?
I observe the closed seasons on fish that we have down here, then watch as people who tell me they voted for the Greens go out and fish out of season, because "there's no way we do the damage that the pros do".
Really?

I'm curious. I work in a lead smelter, making lead so people can have their lead acid batteries to start their cars and store their nice "clean" solar power for when the sun goes down.

What do you guys do for a living? For example, a school teacher might think he is in a respectable job that is nicely unselfish, but his job depends on the rest of us selfishly reproducing, thus laying claim to an ever increasing slice of our ever decreasing natural resources.

They tell me Aussies now have the biggest houses in the world. Is that a selfish use of resources?

All things are connected and interwoven and there are no clear answers. For example, I drive a 24 year old ute. Am I being responsible by not buying a new car every few years, or selfish for not buying a new car every year?
It all depends how you look at it.

These environmental people who sail their ships all over the world, to do things that are probably counter productive in the fight for the environment, never mention how much of the world's oil they burn doing it.

Ditto all the road racing that goes on in the world - if we were serious about the environment, we'd ban it as a criminal waste of the world's resources. (Don't believe all that BS about researching improvements that make it onto road cars. It's about selling cars.)
Anyway. I guess I'm saying it ain't so black and white, and my fellow man disappoints me by not practising what he preaches.
However, I'm going to try to restrain myself from here in. While I feel quite passionately that we don't do enough to preserve our world for the next generation, and that there is a great deal of fault on all sides of the discussion, this is a forum about wood fired ovens and it occurs to me that I have allowed myself to drift waaay off topic, and people will only ever agree with you if they already agree with you. You almost never change anyone's views with the brilliance of your argument.

[Greenman]

Re: 45.1˚C here today

Well if the Japs kill all the whales, the whales be won't be eating the Krill.

But seriously, the French were way out of line. It gets back to what I've been saying all along - people should not kill people over the environment. I have no time for extremists on any side of the equation. And that is a sad thing - there are sides.

In any case, we all selfishly exploit resources.
From the greenie who gets his little patch of paradise in a forest somewhere, then protests like buggery when some developer wants to build houses for other people, or wind turbines to generate some electricity, to the rich man who buys a length of coastline and does his level best to stop anyone else using "his" beach, to the person who just has to wash his car every week and buy the latest phone even though his old one still works, we are all selfish.

When we build a brick oven, someone fired those bricks, guaranteed they didn't use a renewable energy source to do it, ditto the cement and the lime. If we cared at a personal level, we'd build a cob oven with clay we dug ourselves and not use up so much non-renewable energy.
At least mine was built from salvaged pavers, I guess.
I don't like factory ships either. But the question remains, would they be out there if no-one was buying the fish?
I'm curious. I work in a lead smelter, making lead so people can have their lead acid batteries to start their cars and store their nice "clean" solar power for when the sun goes down.
What do you guys do for a living?
Aussies now have the biggest houses in the world. Is that a selfish use of resources?

I spent most of my life farming and working in and managing prisons. Not a 'clean' environment but I gave a lot of men the opportunity to try a different path and by and large I am happy with the results of my life's work.

I live in a modest house, heat my water from the sun, run a solar bank that covers my needs and have a generator if I need backup in an emergency rather than a lead-acid battery bank, grow most of my vegetables and catch enough seafood to sustain my needs. In another life I had my own beef and goats as well but there is only so much you can do when you downsize to an acre.

Much of the fish the factory ships harvest ends up in fertilizer and food to feed to the farmed fish that make people feel warm and fuzzy about eating 'farmed, sustainable' fish. Ships like the 'Abel Tasman' are a good example of floating greed without a conscience and the sooner that it is dispatched back to from where it came the better. It is giving SA a bad name where it is, even if it is not being used.

I am not a radical but feel strongly enough about the way people are abusing our planet to at least speak out from time to time. We all take from the environment and use the fuels that we can find to manufacture things like bricks and regardless of if they are recycled or not they all used energy in their manufacture. Bits of evil that we will always have to endure but at least once it is built the oven is able to be fuelled by sustainable resources.

The other thing is that the food is better and at least we thought about it before we did it. Most of the WFO community pride themselves on the economy of their ovens, unlike many others. I am happy to be part of the WFO community.

It is all about maintaining the balance I expect.

[david s]

Re: 45.1˚C here today

Ultimately we will not be able to sustain an economic model based on growth when the planet's resources are finite. This realisation is being understood by the public, while being ignored by governments and big business.

[wotavidone]

Re: 45.1˚C here today

Ultimately we will not be able to sustain an economic model based on growth when the planet's resources are finite. This realisation is being understood by the public, while being ignored by governments and big business.

So very, very true. The "growth" that economists love depends entirely on an ever increasing population that simply cannot grow indefinitely.

At least the current government of Oz refuses to subsidise unsustainable businesses. It's a start I guess.