Clock Question

[gjbingham]

Re: Clock Question

Jengineer, I did answer it. You missed it amongst my ramblings. Something about the kitchen floor.....

Yes Frances, that would work too, or we could stop eating and get our meats by IV. If we started this practice as children, we'd never have any oral disease.

SJ - I've never met a dentist that believed the nodus (nodi plural) of infection theory that some medical schools preach. Every time you floss, if your gums bleed, you release millions of bacteria into your bloodstream to go out and infect other susceptible tissues in your body. People don't get sick from flossing because your immune system is already geared up to handle those bugs. Only someone with a severely damaged immune system (HIV/AIDS) or someone with a serious systemic disease (diabetes) or prosthetic joint or heart valve (or heart murmer) should have any tiny cause for concern.

When you related the story about your friend, I was thinking diabetic before you finished your statement.

[BrianShaw]

Re: Clock Question

Yeah, but.... George gave us some real insight to the warfare going on in our mouths - but he still didn't weigh in with either his opinion or recomendation. floss then brush or brush then floss....

I got the impression that George if finished talking about dentistry. We'll probably just have to go the rest of our lives wondering what he might have said.

I had a dentist appointment Saturday and asked my dentist - a real geek of a guy (said lovingly) who just LOVES dental research. He said it doesn't matter - as long as one is flossing. His belief is that the difference between blossing before or after brushing is very small compared to the differnece between flossing and not flossing.

[SpringJim]

Re: Clock Question

I'd give my eye teeth to a good answer to this clock question...

...had a friend who cut his leg....would not heal....ended up in the hospital....very serious stuff....found out that he had a tooth infection!....it was a systematic infection.....and it was only after he dealt with the tooth infection that his leg was able to heal.

take care of your teeth!

[Frances]

Re: Clock Question

Why not floss... then brush... then floss again? And then rince with one of those fluoride mouthwash thingies. That's gotta work!

[jengineer]

Re: Clock Question

Yeah, but.... George gave us some real insight to the warfare going on in our mouths - but he still didn't weigh in with either his opinion or recomendation. floss then brush or brush then floss....

[gjbingham]

Re: Clock Question

Thanks Brian,
Your insurance will contact you with your co-pay!

Yes Frances, I understand completely. Pretty easy to walk away from that blather, despite the money. Nothing like being told "I hate the dentist" by every single patient that sits in your chair. After a few years, it takes its toll and there's not much fun in it.

Now I listen to the kids bad mouth me. That's much better!

[BrianShaw]

Re: Clock Question

BTW - no mas! That's the last of the dentistry from me. I don't do that gig anymore. Now I make pizzas and bake bread! Happy happy!

Thanks for all of that information! I seem to recall a similar discussion long ago with a former dentist of mine, but I was a child and (a) didn't believe him, and (b) didn't fully understand the consequences. I now read, "hear", and understand the message. Why don't you bill my insurance for a "routine visit" -- that should help keep you going in your new venture.

[Frances]

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Yes thanks George - for the info and for sparing us any more of it... Still its the first time I've been glad to have Caries. Nothing like positive thinking, eh?

[brokencookie]

Re: Clock Question

Thanks Professor George

[gjbingham]

Re: Clock Question

Yes, that has do do with the chronic low grade bacterial infection of the gingivae (gums) aka periodontitis (gum disease vs. gingivitis (inflamed gums)) actually causing infections in other parts of your body. There is certainly a concern for patients having valvular heart disease, joint implants, and a number of other disorders. Periodontal disease is the acutal breakdown of the bony attachment of the teeth to the surrounding bone and soft tissues and is more likely related to the disucussion above. The number of yeast double every twenty minutes in refreshed sourdough dough. You really don't want to know that the same thing happens in your mouth 20 miutes after a good meal. The numbers are staggaring when you culture them. Millions of bacteria per mm of saliva in a dirty mouth. Yukies! Better not to think to hard about that!

I know you were never told, but you really get most of your dental conditions from your parents. There's no such thing as soft teeth (except in a couple1:100,000 genetic conditions). Parents give their kids the oral bacteria that they will live with the rest of their lives. If parents have caries (cavities) they pass on Strep Mutans through saliva to their kids. If parents have gum disease, they pass on those nasty bugs as well. Caries or periodontal disease - rarely do you ever see both at the same time. Tooth brushing and flossing can stop the majority of both of these problems from really taking hold, as the problems occur when the numbers of bacteria overcome the body's defenses.

To the average Joe, if you get gum disease, your parents had it (shared their food and drinks with you, kissed you, etc.) and your body's genetic makeup predisposes you to that disease. Your teeth get loose, they fall out, the immune system fights off the local chronic infection (and actually causes some of the destruction itself). The immune system does a wonderful job keeping the battle against bugs a local event. A few bacteria do make their way into the bloodstream and have to ability to attach themselves to prosthetic heart valves, prosthetic joints, malformed heart tissues and other tissues that are at risk.

If your parents had caries, all you had to do was brush, floss and eat a diet low in sugar, starches and sticky foods to keep the S. Mutans at bay. A much easier problem to deal with. Xylitol based gums and products acutally inhibit these bacteria and allow more normal bugs to take hold in your mouth. Five times a day for 10 days a couple times a year. I'm getting rusty on the facts. I quit - remember?

Cavities and Periodontal disease are both bacterial infections. As you can imagine, there have been proposals for innoculations that establish non-invasive bacteria into the mouths of children/infants, which would once established, would provide an (almost) immunity to these diseases. Opponents, such as anti-flouridationist and other businesses (Such as toothpastes and oral rinses) who might loose market share will not support (lobby against) removing caries and periodontal disease from the population. Sad, huh?

On the other side, genetics is something you're born with. Some people are more predisposed to periodontal disease than others. Flossing every day with them slows the progress, but it continues relentlessly. Even with rigorous surigical therapies, they get worse. There's some nasty bugs out there looking to invade your mouth!

I'm sure that will make you sleep a little less easy tonight! Sweet dreams!

BTW - no mas! That's the last of the dentistry from me. I don't do that gig anymore. Now I make pizzas and bake bread! Happy happy!

[james]

Re: Clock Question

Brian,
That's it. I've flossed ever since.
James

[BrianShaw]

Re: Clock Question

I seem to recall a study a few years ago that drew a relationship between gingivitis and heart disease. It was a correlational relationship, from which causality cannot be inferred, but it is an interesting notion.

[gjbingham]

Re: Clock Question

I forgot about that question. Probably somebody did a study on just that topic. I don't know if there is a correct answer. I was taught brush then floss when I was young. About 20 years ago I swiched to floss then brush. Seemed like it made more sense to sweep out the corners of the kitchen first before doing the main floor. Otherwise your just sweeping the dust from the corners over the main floor areas you've already swept.

James, that correlation is correct, but is mostly due to healthy vs. unhealthy lifestyles in general. People who take care of themselves tend to live longer.

[SpringJim]

Re: Clock Question

floss then brush

I brush then mop....

[james]

Re: Clock Question

Can I switch this back to dental floss. :-)

I read an investment/retirement book a while back (It's called The Number and I recommend it), and the writer tells the story of a guy who does not floss in order to make sure he never outlives his money! It sounds like there is a strong correlation between flossing and living long (or at least avoiding some terrible things that happen to you as you get much older), so this guy considered not flossing as part of his long term retirement strategy. Very funny. Live fast and die old (but not really, really old).
James