Oh, the Humanity!!

[Les]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

I don't think you can blame the flared entry..

I agree with this David. It's been done w/ no problems - I wish I had done that. But, mechanically, I can see if the arch was compromised (low arch with no lateral support), with the weight of the flu stack and brick, that it could conceivably pull the rest in with it. Its like when they demo a building - blow the supports and the whole damn thing comes down.

[brickie in oz]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Too much weight on that flat arch with no lateral support caused it to collapse.

[gbohnstedt]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

I don't think that the failure of the arch was the sole cause of the failure of the dome. Certainly it did precipitate the collapse, but there was very low bond strength in the mortar. Several days before the crash, I walked around the oven and noted the poor adhesion of the mortar to the bricks (several were loose and moved in place) and found that it would flake off if I dug into it with a fingernail. In fact, I just took another look and much of the mortar crumbles and turns to powder at the touch. One of the rows in the dome simply separated from the brick below it leaving no speck of mortar on the lower row.

On the positive side, it makes cleaning the bricks for reuse quite easy.

Greg

[Tman1]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

If you paid a mason to do this work, shouldn't he have some responsibility to have done it correctly? I did notice the interior pictures looked quite good (no joints lining up).

[Tscarborough]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

In a static structure, the mortar has such a low required strength that it would probably never have been an issue. It did not remain static. I have seen hundred plus year old buildings where I could literally tear a rock out of the wall with my hands, but the building was structurally fine, although in need of eventual remediation.

[Tscarborough]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

If you told the mason what to build, it isn't his deal. I run across this often with fireplaces "designed" by architects. The mason builds it as drawn, and when it doesn't work the architect and GC want to blame the mason because he is an expert at building fireplaces. And he is an expert at BUILDING them, not designing them.

[DaveW]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Yikes! My worst nightmare (regarding pizza ovens). At least yours was not enclosed. I am sure you will have it back up in no time.

dave

[Lburou]

Legos & used fire brick have something in common

They are easy to recycle!

I plan to make a flared oven entry like the one you made.

Good luck on the rebuild, and, with life's other trials. :bucketfullofencouragement:

[brickie in oz]

Re: Legos & used fire brick have something in common

I plan to make a flared oven entry like the one you made.

Dont make the arch so flat unless you have heaps of buttressing to back up the downwards load.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Greg
I feel your pain... You a very gutsey bloke for posting that one.. thanks
You still have the stand, you still have he bricks.....
I've always wanted to build a secound oven.... think of it this way. You have the stand already build the bricks sourced and cut... your many steps ahead already

Good luck
Cobbler dave

[OscarA]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Good to see you are rebuilding. On the bright side you know if the previous size was adequate for your needs so this new build will be exactly what you want. I'm building a 33" oven and have no idea if it's to big or small for my needs.
Thanks for sharing I'm sure there are many of us out there who will change our arch plans due to your post.

[Tscarborough]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Flat arches are fine, you just have to realize that they will have more outward thrust and allow for that force. All arches exhibit this, some more than others. For an unengineered arch, err on the side of more mass.

[Tman1]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

If you told the mason what to build, it isn't his deal. I run across this often with fireplaces "designed" by architects. The mason builds it as drawn, and when it doesn't work the architect and GC want to blame the mason because he is an expert at building fireplaces. And he is an expert at BUILDING them, not designing them.

Wouldn't you expect that he at least knew the right mortar or mix to use, or give some sort of guidance? I wish I could fall back on ' you told me to do it that way' when something goes wrong. (which hasn't happened, but i won't build something for someone if I know it's going to fail, but maybe that's just me)

I should also add, that if you had a friend do it, this entire point is moot. I had a buddy that said he'd help me with projects (for free), then added, I'll make sure you get what you pay for, and I'll pay you back double if it goes wrong!

[Tscarborough]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

It depends. All masons are not fireplace or oven masons. Some masons lay only rock, some lay brick, some do it all.

[eprante]

Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Good luck wit the next one, I would recommend getting a HF saw, home brew mortar, tapering the bricks and doing it yourself ( it cant possibly come out worse)
Eric