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My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

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  • #31
    Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

    Wow. I had forgotten about the photobucket thing. Anyway, I brought it up to date- it is showing them in backward order so you don't have to look at the whole project if you don't want to. The little curly item at the top of the outer arch in the final photos is the damper handle- a cast iron lizard. Nose up, damper closed; nose east, damper open. Facing material is tumbled marble- noce, chiaro, and gold. Pictures by perks1018 - Photobucket
    By the way, thanks for all the support. I got weepy and suicidal (almost) when I started second guessing the vault (after it was too late to really do anything about it). Glad now I didn't try. ;{)}

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    • #32
      Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

      Final dimensions for the interested: 17.5" by 8.5" oven mouth, internal 31" deep by 28" wide, 17" height at peak. 43" by 43.5" outer oven dimension. Overall counter length 12' by 26" wide.

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      • #33
        Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

        Originally posted by Tscarborough View Post
        I would stop right where you are and reconsider.
        I couldn't, I didn't, and I'm done. I know advice in this forum is well-intended, but no disrespect, I'm glad I ignored some of it.
        Last edited by perks1018; 07-07-2011, 10:18 PM. Reason: forgot the picture

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        • #34
          Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

          Originally posted by perks1018 View Post
          Glad now I didn't try.
          We are too.

          I hope you didnt get offended by any of my statements, its just that arches do fail without sideways thrust, its a fact, I dont make it up.
          The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

          My Build.

          Books.

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          • #35
            Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

            Not at all. Not offended, just completely freaked out! Anyway, all's well and all that stuff. Thanks!
            Last edited by perks1018; 07-07-2011, 10:24 PM. Reason: remove photo link

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            • #36
              Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

              Looks great. I wish I had added counters to my project

              Thanks for the update

              Peter
              Member WFO-AMB=WW

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              • #37
                Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

                This is an arch from the virtually deserted fortified town Oppiede les Vieux, Provence, France. The arch is about 600 years old and everything around it has failed yet it stands strong because the stones are shaped to fit. I think your oven will outlast you and a few generations to boot.
                Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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                • #38
                  Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

                  But isnt the old arch buttressed? Looks like it from here.
                  The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

                  My Build.

                  Books.

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                  • #39
                    Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

                    I don't recall what was on the other side of the vertical walls supporting it, I was just really amazed that the arch remained after so long and everything around it has failed.
                    Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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                    • #40
                      Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

                      First, let me thank you for posting your pics; they are great (I particularly like your dog trying out the cooking surface!!). Second, I'm planning to start my barrel vault in August (still collecting supplies and waiting for grown kids who want to participate), so I've got a couple of questions. This one is for the moderators: This thread has been all about arches/vaults and possible collapse, but it looks to me like Perks tapered his bricks. Isn't that what arches are all about anyway? Now my question for Perks; I'm not sure how you did the tapering of each brick, so could you give me a little lesson (especially whether I need any special jigs/equipment etc.). Also, wouldn't it have been even more structurally sound to offset/ alternate the bricks in each vault ( or is this unnecessary)? Finally, does having the flue in the vault itself--as opposed to a separate chamber--have any negative issues associated with it (e.g. starting problems, heating issues/cold spots etc.)?

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                      • #41
                        Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

                        If the flue is inside the oven chamber you need a damper, or like many kilns, simply a cap on top of the chimney. Without such an arrangement every time the door is opened all the heat from the oven goes up the fue.
                        Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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                        • #42
                          Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

                          Originally posted by luca View Post
                          Also, wouldn't it have been even more structurally sound to offset/ alternate the bricks in each vault ( or is this unnecessary)?
                          You have to bond the bricks to achieve optimum strength, this makes the arch as one rather than a series of single arches, and less likely to fail
                          See here.

                          Originally posted by luca View Post
                          Finally, does having the flue in the vault itself--as opposed to a separate chamber--have any negative issues associated with it (e.g. starting problems, heating issues/cold spots etc.)?
                          My flue is inside my oven and operates way better than I had hoped it would, lighting the oven is an absolute breeze, as for loosing the heat at shut down you just need a damper in the flue.

                          Chimney.

                          Flue Damper.
                          The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.

                          My Build.

                          Books.

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                          • #43
                            Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

                            In kiln construction the end walls on a barrel vault should be inside the arch. If outside the arch steel bracing is used to prevent the end walls from tending to fall out. A large diameter arc exerts considerable lateral force at its base, a semicircle much less so and a catenery arch the best, although only if its base is about the same as its height. We are not building kilns so the temp extremes are not as destructive but the principles are the same.
                            Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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                            • #44
                              Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

                              Your welcome. Angus was my constant if not particularly helpful assistant throughout the months of construction. I calculated the bevel on the bricks to allow for a specific number, in this case fourteen, bricks laid edge to edge to create a 9" wide by 2.5" thick vault. In this case, I wanted a semicircular vault with an 18" height so using all of my highschool geometry figured that meant a 36" inside diameter circle, roughly 39" outside diameter. 36" times Pi equaled a number divided by 28 yielded yet another number which when divided into the 360 degrees of the circle yielded yet another number which when divided by 2 (the bevels on each side of the brick) gave me 7 or so degrees. That is what I shaved off the long side of each brick using a 14" diamond blade in a chop saw. I cut a couple of wooden wedges at 7 degrees, propped the brick on them, then trimmed the brick. A running bond does not a stronger arch make. Each brick in any arch is bonded on every side to another brick or two. What a running bond provides is a greater number of individual or different bricks- 6 instead of 4- for any given brick to be attached to. Look at any brick in a wall and count the number of bricks it has contact with and you'll see what I mean. A running bond simply makes the failure of any individual joint less catastrophic. Finally, as I said before, the flue in the vault was a mistake, but one Im glad I made. My damper consists of a 3/8" thick steel plate backed with a thick pad of fiberglas which pivots at one end on a 3/8" steel rod running through a steel tube running through the masonry and out the front of the oven. When I turn the handle, the plate pivots up and the flue is open. Back and the damper is closed. Without the damper, my oven would have been a fireplace. I can start my fire without accelerants while the damper is open, and when the large logs are burning merrily, I can close the damper and heat the oven. We were baking pizza two hours after I lit the oven last night.

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                              • #45
                                Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

                                Thanks, that's very helpful! (And now I'll need to dust off my geometry skills so I can use your formula to calculate the angle I'll need to cut...finally, someone has answered the age-old highschooler's question of "WHY do I need to learn this stuff??!!) As you'll see above, most of my questions have been (thankfully!) answered on this forum, but the BIG question that no one has responded to yet, is whether the bevels that you cut on your bricks didn't in fact increase each of your arches' strength as found in the classic arch design (i.e. since your bricks are now angled/trapezoidal rather than rectangular, isn't the force from the top of the arch transferred through each brick to its lower neighbor and thence to the floor of the oven, hence minimizing the likelihood of collapse?) If i can get a cogent answer to this question, then I'll know whether I'll need to construct a double layered vault rather than a single one, as you did (and I'm certainly leaning heavily towards the single layer). Any other comments out there on this issue??!!

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