1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

[cobblerdave]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

G'day tractorman
REDBEARD historic bakery - sourdough bakery caf? in Trentham, Victoria
Old school bread bakers have there place in the world. I for one would like to see you continue your posts. I can't wait to see how much that thing will bake once hot. I'm glad your your chopping the wood though.
In the scheme of things your ovens a dinosaur , the FB oven is BC and the newer stainless steel lined FB ovens must be the microwave of the WFO world.
All still WFO of course.
Tscar right in a way. As long as people realize that a big oven like yours is for serious long mass cooker and not just a weekend pizza cooker for family and friends it should be right.
Regards dave

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

I am sorry, but a couple of hours of research would have led you to build a very different oven. Basically, you have built a huge heatsink, and if you plan on venting through the rear opening, an even worse design.

I am sure your forefathers built to the best of their knowledge and skills, but you do not have the same excuse. Tear it down and do it right, or please quit posting so that you do not influence others to build something similar, or using similar design features. The entire design is wrong, period.

Hmmmm...NOT exactly the critique I was expecting. So what you are saying is that no matter what we do with this, it is not going to function properly?? Is it that only modern designs are whats accepted here ??

Most importantly...how would an oven of "modern" design do any justice to the original intent of honoring our ancestors by attempting to duplicate an oven built and used by them in the mid 1800's ??

I really doubt that anyone will be influenced enough by our oven to cause them to build a similar one, but I am glad you agree we have built a huge heat sink as that too was the original intent. Once heated, we are expecting an 8 hour baking window with plenty residual left over for overnight roasting of hams, shoulders, tenderloins or briskets.

I sure hope we haven't been wasting our time..... and... please feel free to answer my three questions above.

[Tscarborough]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

I am sorry, but a couple of hours of research would have led you to build a very different oven. Basically, you have built a huge heatsink, and if you plan on venting through the rear opening, an even worse design.

I am sure your forefathers built to the best of their knowledge and skills, but you do not have the same excuse. Tear it down and do it right, or please quit posting so that you do not influence others to build something similar, or using similar design features. The entire design is wrong, period.

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri



Not knowing if its supposed to be done or not, we opted to smoosh more of the 2,000 degree refractory cement into all the joints from the inside. Maybe it'll flake off, I don't know....but at least all the joints are sealed now.



Yeah, our bricklaying skills are just as lacking as our stonesetting skills as evidenced here on the front....



Here's the beginning of the spring loaded latch. Still need to fab a handle or two that won't burn our hands.



Firebrick all the way up, all that's lacking now is to finish the stonework....and the door handles.

Ya'all getting bored yet ??

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri



This is the inside of the front half of the two piece door. The 5 little stubs welded around the perimeter will allow the back piece to be drawn in tight with the nut on the center stud so the two pieces can be welded without too much deflection.



...the mating piece.....



We robbed the insulation from an electric range down in the brothers basement. Figure if its good enough for electric, it'll be ok for wood....



With the door just tacked together, we set it on the hearth stone to see what it was going to look like. The wood framework has got to come out next before any more firebrick goes on.

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

G'day
Watching your interesting build. Don't want to interfere, but I'll just point that the metal will expand in the heat. It's not just the fit of the door it's the expansion against the brick that might cause problems. The Italians use metal doors in metal surrounds so it " do able" but how they do it I don't know
Regards dave

That was also our concern Dave, but we didn't really take the time to think of another option. The whole project has been kind of a "shoot from the hip" project.

[cobblerdave]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

G'day
Watching your interesting build. Don't want to interfere, but I'll just point that the metal will expand in the heat. It's not just the fit of the door it's the expansion against the brick that might cause problems. The Italians use metal doors in metal surrounds so it " do able" but how they do it I don't know
Regards dave

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri



After clamping it in place, a "rosebud" was used on the torch to direct heat around the perimeter of the piece and while red hot, tapped in place with a four pound hammer.



Replacing the clamps with spot welds was necessary because the continual beating with the two-face kept loosening the grip of the clamps on the rounded surface. Not a problem though...the spot welds will just be ground off.



On a non-sequetor note....this is the cement used to bond the firebrick. It was found to apply very easily and when cured it is very hard. The recommended thickness is not more than 3/16" if I remember correctly anyway.



The good thing about being a couple of redneck farm boys working construction for a living is that we seem to have an unending supply of discarded materials from the jobsite trash hoppers at our disposal. So pulling some 3/16" x 6" flat stock from our "stash" netted us the material to make this door frame.

Welding a flat base to it and tacking the newly formed "door recess" around the perimeter, we ended up with this result. It'll be bricked in soon, but first a door must be made to match.....

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri



Nearing the top on this side... For reference, that's a 4 foot ladder I'm standing on.



Dome sides and back mostly completed its time fo the door...



We figured for the door frame a "recess" would be required for the actual door to fit into. A seemingly natural recess was found in this damaged 16" trailer rim. Torching off the outer area of the rim the thinking was to open it up at the bottom, leaving the natural arch of the rim for the top.

We decided on an opening of 16" to 18" in width and 18" to 20" in height.



...so we welded a piece of scrap angle to the face of the rim to allow it to be held easily in the vice. The idea is to use the donor rim as an anvil to stretch the piece over forcing it to remain reasonably round...

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri



A little further up the sides, we tried to fit stones that give a reasonably straight joint at the start of the arch curvature. Using portions of firebrick to prop the stones at the desired angle also gave close to 4" to fill in with rock dunnage and mortar.

We figured filling this void will increase the body mass' capability to contain heat. The wall and dome thickness ended up approximately 8" to 10" on average. In the areas that were too difficult to trowel in mortar, we mixed a slurry and poured it in to eliminate possible voids. Seemed to work well....



The front and the back averaged somewhat thinner due to our lack of pre-thought. But still thickness was in the vicinity of 5" to 6".



A little further up the same side, the back too was set in place....

Our plan was to use wire wheels on angle grinders to touch up and smooth out the excess mortar in the joints once it set up. Looks kinda rough at first though.



A couple saw-cut stone are visible, but where possible the cuts were covered within the mortared joints. Only one remained visible and that one will get some attention with a hammer and chisel to roughen it up a bit.

Thanks for the acknowledgement v12spirit....and tscarborough, I will reserve a brand new pair of leather gloves with your name on them if you feel the need to stop by for some "exercise"... The woodpile really enjoys visitors and wintertime IS approaching you know....

Next up: Some stone on top and maybe the oven door and frame...

[v12spirit]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Yes, it is done intentionally first and foremost because this is our first attempt at a project like this and don't know any better.

Looking forward to see the finishing of this oven, and the build of the second one. Such a cool idea to appreciate the ancestors by recreating their heritage.

[Tscarborough]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Just keep on going, you are doing it like they did and it will work just fine with that forest you have.

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Regardless of what it is used for efficient oven design dictates insulation as well as the appropriate mass for the expected use.

We are learning....we are learning, believe me !!!

Thanks to all you guys again, and please feel free to comment, good or bad. The next one will be better I gaurantee it !!

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

G'day V12
This is a high mass serious bread baker probably capable of baking bread for a small village.

Regards dave

You are absolutely correct Dave... As we were building this and talking to more of the old timers we found two very similar in design right within a 50 mile radius that are still in use. One old settlement just south of us had a similar one in the town square and it was fired continually for the residents to sign their name to a list for a time to schedule their family's baking back in the mid to late 1800's.

Yes, this is a bit on the large side for a backyard oven, but remember the original was over 7' in length and near 5' in width....and it was for just one family with 15 children !!!!

The two still in use are used during several Civil War reenactments and Pioneering days Festivals. The people that run them were a fount of information for us.

[tractorman44]

Re: 1880's Limestone Oven Dismantling and Rebuild in Missouri

Looks like there is no insulation between the firebricks and the limestone! Did you do that intentionally?

Yes, it is done intentionally first and foremost because this is our first attempt at a project like this and don't know any better. When we build the second one, hopefully by then we will have received enough cirtique to know what mistakes we made and how to correct them.

We've already received a number of suggestions so far in this thread that are very beneficial.

We intended this to be a functioning oven built with the stone used by our Great Grandfather as a tribute to our farming heritage and to the pioneering spirit of a man we never met.

....and the intention was for it to be built on the order of an oven used back in that time period....1870 to 1880.

So yeah, there's a lot of rookie mistakes but we are still kinda proud of the project. Thanks for the interest and please feel free to make suggestions for the next one.