My Old Kentucky Dome

[Ken524]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

When you did your form for the hearth, did you put a turnbuckle and wire in to hold the long sides together? If so, did you see that much sideways movement during the pour?

RC,

I did use a turnbuckle on the long sides. You can see it here:

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/photoplog/index.php?n=595

The wire and turnbuckle were tightened pretty snug so I didn't see any flexing of the form sides.

You can see the wires hanging out the sides in this pic:

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/photoplog/index.php?n=734

I still haven't cut them yet.

[Ken524]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

Ken, just curious, what else did you plan to buy at the hydroponic store?
It must be very GREEN there......kidding.

The Hydroponics place is COOL! It's the middle of December and they have fresh cherry tomatoes growing in the store window. I started thinking about San Marzano Tomatoes. If I had room in the basement I would do it.

[gjbingham]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

Ken,
I have a feeling that the San Marzano tomato's pizza sauce perfection is a result of climate and not genetics. I was surprised to read (this morning at 3:00 AM on the FB website) that Christopher Columbus brought the tomato from the Americas back to Europe (at least that's what I my bleary eyes revealed to me during the wee hours). Certainly, there's been some plant breeding to produce the best product for that climate over the three hundred or so years it has been grown there, but lacking the hot and dry Mediteranean climate, I think your efforts would not produce what you were aspiring to.

Lacking San Marzanos, try Roma tomatoes. They make great pasta sauce, bruschetta, and I've used them with really nice results in pizza sauce.

G.

[Acoma]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

GB, with a green house you can create any climate, right?

[gjbingham]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

Good question. Probably could keep a greenhouse warm enough in the winter with a heater. During summertime, it might be much easier.

Summer temps in Southern Italy are very similar to summers in the LA basin. Many days of very warm weather, both days and nights. These tomatoes are grown in one specific area just outside Naples, and are supposed to be superior to others outside that region, at least for making sauces. I'm not totally sure that is the case, but they may have been the best available (without trucks, trains, ect.) during the development of the Pizza Napolitana...... something of an urban legend from the past that continues to live on today.

Hey, give it a shot Ken. It would be fun to try anyway I bet you could grow some pretty nice tomatoes in the summer down there in KY.

[CanuckJim]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

Guys,

Years ago I wrote a newsletter on wines for a prominent client. Involved tons of research. I found out very quickly that a lot of ink has been spilled about soil conditions, mineral content, drainage, compass directions, etc., etc. in European vineyards. It's not all blowing smoke, either. Perhaps genuine San Marzanos benefit not only from the climate but also from soil make up, drainage and orientation to the sun in that area. If so, the flavor would be affected in the same way that distinuishes French and Italian grapes from various regions. Just a thought.

Jim

[Ken524]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

Perhaps genuine San Marzanos benefit not only from the climate but also from soil make up, drainage and orientation to the sun in that area.

Absolutely, without a doubt! That's why "Vidalia" onions only taste the way they do when grown down in Vidalia, Georgia. You can grow sweet onions about any where, and they are acceptable, but just not the same as real Vidalia's.

I'm going to get some San Marzano seeds this summer and give them a shot, I've also grown Roma's with good results. I'm sure that a firm fleshed fresh tomato of those varieties would make fine pizza.

[Acoma]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

Try Maui sweet onions too.

[Hendo]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

I'm going to get some San Marzano seeds this summer and give them a shot

If you do, Ken, you may want to consider planting them directly in the pot or soil that they'll ultimately grow in. I planted some seed in small 'seed raising' containers using the appropriate mix and they ... well ... haven't done very well. They took a very long time to germinate, grew to their first leaves and then ... stopped. I tried transplanting a few and noticed that they had very long roots, which leads me to think they should have gone straight into the ground, like other plants which tend to put on a lot of root growth in the early stages.

The pic (posted previously) shows the punnet which is now destined for the bin - this is several weeks after sowing. Most disappointing!

Paul.

[gjbingham]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

Jim et al,

I concur completely. I don't dispute the fact that they are superior tomatoes. I really agree that local conditions may just be perfect for creating the famous tomatoes.

The comparison to wine grapes is absolutely right on the mark. Some places are better than others, for a variety of reasons. In the case of the wine grapes from France, it turned out that the Californians could often grow and vint a superior product, as proved numerous times by double blind testing. Not always, but in many cases. That might also be the case with the famous tomato....., but who's testing.

One of the greatest things about living, eating, and drinking in the old world is that you enjoy partaking in the offerings and produce of the local community, and are less subject to world transportation of of produce to fill a void during the off season. That was much more true a few hundred years ago. I have no doubt in my mind that the San Marzano Tomatoes developed their reputation based on years of success and that it is well deserved. I think it very worthwhile to attempt to reproduce their success locally, just as we have in building our personal ovens to enjoy one of the favorite meals of Italy. Enjoying the produce of your vegetable garden on your handmade pizza in your personally built pizza oven....... what could be better?!
(I just know they won't grow worth a poo in the NW)

Salute!
George

[jerry ragland]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

Ken, I am in Louisville also and would love to talk with you sometime.
jerry

[Ken524]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

Hey Jerry,

I sent you a private message. I'd be happy to talk pizza ovens! When are you planning on building?

Ken

[egalecki]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

I'm still collecting information so I can build my own "perfect" oven here, and learning a whole lot.
Gardens, however, I have a lot of experience with. I can tell you that San Marzano tomatoes don't have the disease resistance that others do- so in hot and humid Kentucky (I grew up there, just south of you, Ken) you may have some trouble with the wilts and blights.
One book I have (by an Italian) suggests not watering tomatoes much at all after they set fruit- so they concentrate their flavor. Maybe that's why the San Marzanos in the can taste so good? I haven't tried that myself, I am a terrible softy when it comes to my plants. I always tell myself I won't plant every seedling in a pack, that I WILL throw away the ones that don't fit where I want them, but I just can't bring myself to do it. So I end up with tomatoes, peppers and eggplant coming out of my ears.
Any way, the year I planted tomatoes from seeds which I had, um, accidentally brought back from a trip to Italy, I got beautiful costoluto genovese- big, crazy wrinkled on top, and absolutely the best eating ever, but not very good San Marzano.
I might just try the starving for water technique this summer on my Romas, after all, they're determinate anyway, so once they finish that big haul, they're done anyway. Or maybe just on a few of them. Can't change a garden softy overnight...

[Ken524]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

Gardens, however, I have a lot of experience with.

GREAT! We need more gardening expertise here . I'm as novice as they come.

I can tell you that San Marzano tomatoes don't have the disease resistance that others do- so in hot and humid Kentucky...

I might just try the starving for water technique this summer on my Romas

I'm definitely doing some Romas this year. I know they will grow well. Maybe I'll get lucky with San Marzano's and have a mild summer! Which reminds me; it's about time to order some seeds!

Thanks for the info! (and welcome to the forum )

[Ken524]

Re: My Old Kentucky Dome

Finally! Oven building weather again in Kentucky! It was a gorgeous day so I took the tarps off to survey the damage.

The settling/cracking episode in Nov/Dec knocked loose the Duratech mount, all the the bricks in the 2nd level of vent box and one on the lower level. I cleaned the old mortar off of the bricks, soaked them and re-mortared the box.

This time around, I am taking Jim's advice for mounting the Duratech mount. I predrilled 4 holes in the bricks before mortaring them. I'll put some scrap blanket between the mount and the box and screw it all down with concrete screws. If any more minor settling occurs, there should be enough give in the connection to not crack the mortar.

The second project today was removing all the mortared bricks in my vent floor (I didn't use mortar between bricks on the oven floor, just the vent floor). The mortar cracked during settling and it looked ugly. I trimmed the bricks and placed them back tightly without mortar. Looks a lot better. They will be locked into place when I pour the concrete landing around them.

We looked at porcelain tile at Home Depot last week. They have some nice stuff that looks like stone. That's probably the way I'll finish the landing. Fast and easy. Anyone have any advice in this area?? Is porcelain tile a reasonable outdoor finish material?

Next step is to pour the landing then get some concrete board and roof for this thing.