Sharing my progress...

[aikitarik]

I posted a link on the Pompeii thread, but it was to a specific pic.

I'm currently preparing to dry stack, quickwall (and a little rebar and concrete) my base before pouring the actual hearth. Progress is in this yahoo album.

Dome work hopefully starts in 2 weeks.

Regards,

Tarik

[ColonelCorn76]

Cool. Now I don't feel so bad about the work I had to do for my oven patio. Yours makes mine look like a walk in the park.

[aikitarik]

Cool. Now I don't feel so bad about the work I had to do for my oven patio. Yours makes mine look like a walk in the park.

It IS a bit of a project, isn't it? I haven't even really gotten started on the house!

Tarik

[Marcel]

Is Tarik's oven to be part of a house?

Dear Tarik,

I went to your: yahoo album.[img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/MARCEL/LOCALS%7E1/TEMP/moz-screenshot-42.jpg[/img]

I copied your photo, below, to MyDocuments and then tried to paste it here but when I clicked on Insert Image, I was referred to Please Enter the URL of Your Image

Well, it is really the URL of Tarik's image which I wanted to ask about.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/aikita...38.jpg&.src=ph

Next I went to Additional Options and chose Attach Files. I went to MyDocuments and selected the Image in question. I don't see it here yet but I suspect it will show up after I Submit Reply.

Now to the questions: What kind of blocks are those large beige ones? ___

Is the elaborate foundation being constructed only to provide retaining walls or is it a part of a home? ____

I am curious as to in what state your oven will be located? ___

If the oven proper will involve the kind of care you've already demonstrated, it should be Super! Thanks for sharing and thanks for letting me borrow your literal image.

Marcel

[Marcel]

Is Tarik's oven to be part of a house?

Dear Tarik,

I went to your: yahoo album.[img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/MARCEL/LOCALS%7E1/TEMP/moz-screenshot-42.jpg[/img]

I copied your photo, below, to MyDocuments and then tried to paste it here but when I clicked on Insert Image, I was referred to Please Enter the URL of Your Image

Well, it is really the URL of Tarik's image which I wanted to ask about.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/aikita...38.jpg&.src=ph

Next I went to Additional Options and chose Attach Files. I went to MyDocuments and selected the Image in question. I don't see it here yet but I suspect it will show up after I Submit Reply.

Now to the questions: What kind of blocks are those large beige ones? ___

Is the elaborate foundation being constructed only to provide retaining walls or is it a part of a home? ____

I am curious as to in what state your oven will be located? ___

If the oven proper will involve the kind of care you've already demonstrated, it should be Super! Thanks for sharing and thanks for letting me borrow your literal image.

Marcel

[aikitarik]

Marcel,

Now to the questions: What kind of blocks are those large beige ones? ___

They are tan versabloks. I actually used them for a stairway/retaining wall to the right [out] of the picture and small free standing wall (18 inch high) in front of the tree in the picture.

Is the elaborate foundation being constructed only to provide retaining walls or is it a part of a home? ____

Retaining walls. The idea was to create a large retaining wall to give us some level yard space and divert the water down towards the stream. You are looking into my back yard from the back door/porch. There's a 4 inch pipe behind the wall and under the foundation where the oven will soon sit.

We got 72 inches of rain here last winter and really felt the need to stop rivers from running into the house.The prior owners used to allow the hillside to stream water against and under the house.

I am curious as to in what state your oven will be located? ___

If the oven proper will involve the kind of care you've already demonstrated, it should be Super! Thanks for sharing and thanks for letting me borrow your literal image.

Thanks for the compliments! It will be in California.

This weekend I worked on the blocks to support the front third of the hearth (mainly the oven throat area and a 12 inch shelf) and also built a 12' long block planter bed in front of the wall to the far left.

The area to the immediate left of the oven will be a BBQ/smoker and sink prep area and we're thinking about building an island bar to separate the spaces for our guests.

I'll post more pics as we get further along.

Tarik

[aikitarik]

More pics...

New ones from 22 on.

Yahoo album photos

Here's a few tidbits...

The night before I started on the oven floor, my wife and I lay down and watched thed stars on the hearth bed and experienced a 3.1 earthquake that was epicentered only 5 miles away!

It was an amazing and different experience to feel an earthquake while lying down right on concrete (we had blankets as well). I felt the 7.1 in 1989, but I was on my feet at the time.

Tarik

[Marcel]

Will Tarik cover his igloo with a "Gable House"? Door Incl.?

#30

(M) Great photos, Tarik, confirm my opinion of your work as that of a true craftsman-like builder!

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(M) The most important first decision I had to make was whether I would enclose my Pompeii "igloo" with "house" walls made of cement board. I feel that this is so important an early decision that I am also going to post this message on the "Newbie Forum".

(M) The reason this 1st decision is so important is that when I decided to enclose my igloo (permitting me to add lots of perlite insulation under the roof) I realized that it would be a waste of time to do fine finish detail work that would ultimately be hidden. Paul and Robert are just two builders that opted for elegant detail. Robert with his mosaic, and Paul with his arched brick throat entry.

(M) My recommendation to any Newbie is to make that 1st decision before you do any work! I struggled trying to reconcile different photos and directions until I realized that there is a fundamental structural process to be considered which is based on that 1st choice.

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(M) Tarik, I'm curious which of those 2 ways you will go? ____ If you are going to build an enclosure to help retain the heat, I would like to follow your progress very closely. I am almost exactly where you are now and I could use guidance in the design and formation of the throat to the igloo.

(M) I suspect that a closing door to the Hearth fire might be an excellent idea as many builders find themselves using a lot of firewood. A door would help heat retention when baking bread after cooking pizza.

(M) I am considering extending the 2nd bricks from the fireside entrance about 1/2" further apart. This would leave me a masonry door stop. Does anyone see a potential problem with that idea? ____ Does anyone understand what in H. I'm trying to express?

Ciao,

Marcel

[Bob C]

Marcel,

With regards to the door...that is what I did, I left about 3/4" as a stop for a door that I made using salvaged 2x4 mahogany. I'll try to attach a photo of my door opening. It seems to work very well for me. good luck. Pizza is just around the corner.

Bob

[aikitarik]

Great photos, Tarik, confirm my opinion of your work as that of a true craftsman-like builder!

You are too flattering, Marcel. I can see many flaws in my work.

Tarik, I'm curious which of those 2 ways you will go? ____ If you are going to build an enclosure to help retain the heat, I would like to follow your progress very closely. I am almost exactly where you are now and I could use guidance in the design and formation of the throat to the igloo.

I plan to enclose the oven in a gabled house, very similar to Jim's design. My wife insists on a smoking dragon sitting perched on the gabled roof. Ironically, she and I both thought of that idea long before we found Jim's example.

I also plan on an arched entry way simply because I find it more interesting. We'll see as I actually build it. There are examples of my arch forms in the Yahoo group.

As you suggest, I plan on widening the arch perhaps 3/4 of an inch so that I have a stop for installing a door. I'm current investigating what it will cost for me to have iron doors fabricated, and another avenue I've considered is a wooden door with firebrick on the inside face.

The problem with installing a door is that you do have to leave enough room for airflow or you cannot use it with the fire in place (works great for after however, to help retain heat). I plan on following some of the ideas I remember from my childhood in the Middle East, when I was daily picking up fresh bread at the bakery.

BTW, looking at this, I believe that my dome form idea is too flat. Any comments? This is the 42 inch diameter oven, with the high dome (21 inches). The smaller arch is the planned doorway.

Regards,

Tarik

[Marcel]

If you "Construct walls around your oven" then, ...

#31

(M) I found the following quote from the Forno Bravo oven building instructions:

"Construct walls around your oven using metal studs to a height of at least 6" higher than the top of your insulated oven dome."

(M) I believe that Jim's first gabled house oven did not build the walls to that height, at least so it appears from the pictures on Yahoo. The advantage I see of using taller walls is that the builder can employ collar ties which would otherwise be obstructed by the top of the dome.

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(M) Thanks to both Bob C. and Tarik for their help. Tarik, you wrote:

(T) .... " ...I've considered is a wooden door with firebrick on the inside face."

(M) I can't visualize firebrick on the inside of the door. Would you use the thin split firebricks and attach them with some special adhesive? ____

(T) "The problem with installing a door is that you do have to leave enough room for airflow or you cannot use it with the fire in place (works great for after however, to help retain heat)."

(M) How would the open chimney vent affect air to the hearth when the door is closed? ____ Are you planning on a chimney? ___ If "yes", then would you install a "damper" valve near the top? Since your design is so similar to mine I am especially looking forward to seeing your pictures. Had I mentioned elsewhere that about 30 of my images can be seen at :

http://photobucket.com/albums/a318/marceld/?sc=1

(M) Your dome does appear a bit too flat but mine is perhaps a tad too high? ___ I will not be working on mine this weekend so that will give you a head start, Tarik, with the result that I can learn from you :-)

(M) btw I have been using the Lazy Susan to rotate my 8 vanes but I believe I'll have to stop using it as I work on the throat as the vanes will probably intersect to bricks there as I rotate that assembly.

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(B) "Pizza is just around the corner."

(M) I know but who wants to eat at "Domino's" ?

Ciao,

Marcel

[Marcel]

Consider a Photo ALBUM in addition to the existing images

#33

(M) This is a reply to James' post from a different thread but since it is about Photos, I thought I'd Copy-Paste his post and <insert> my thoughts:

(JB) "Is the Forum "Brick Oven Photos" working as a central repository of photos, or is limiting 5 attachments to a thread limiting."

(M) I don't feel limited with just 5 images. I can post more with a 2nd Reply if I want to.

"If it is limiting, I would be happy to research the best way to attach a more open repository to the Forum. Perhaps there is a way of linking threads to photos in the repository. I will look into it."

(M) Not limiting for me, but would you consider having a Photo "Album" which contains only the images submitted, and, if possible, references the original post but does not in itself permit posts? I believe that some weeks ago you considered not moving the photos from where they currently reside but making copies of them to post in an Album. An Album, such as seen on Yahoo or PhotoBucket doesn't admit text and as a result the images are fairly easy to follow chronologically-sequentially.

(JB) "In general, storage has become so cheap, I don't think we want to limit photos -- but rather want there to be more -- then, the issue becomes assessbility and organization."

(M) I agree. There is great information on this forum but it is not that easy to locate.

(JB) "My action item, and I will get back."

(JB) "In terms of threads, I am trying to make it easy for both Forno Bravo oven owners and Pompeii builders to share everything, in terms of oven siting, design, insulation, trim, finish, chimneys, etc."

(M) I definitely feel that the construction stages or phases are the best way to organize the Sub forums and that giving only the simple name of the Sub-Forum, e.g. "Pompeii Oven STAND", "Pompeii Oven HEARTH", "Pompeii oven FLOOR and DOME", "Pompeii oven VENT and CHIMNEY", "Pompeii oven for FORNO BRAVO PARTS" would get the forum members to more easily select the appropriate sub-forum.

(JB) "One idea would be to eliminate the Newbie section, and put the content there into the four installation forums. We would turn the Newbie section into an information only Forum, not for posting threads."

(M) Yes, that could be a way. I always wrestle with choosing between "Newbie", and "Getting Started". They both suggest a novice posting so would you consider consolidating those two? If you read the descriptions of what should be on those forums it is not all that clear which one is the right choice because the descriptions over lap.

(JB) "Just a thought. For now, let's keep the Forums the same, and see if we can tackle the photo issue."

(M) The way I have tried to tackle the image problem ( I do have an image problem ;-) is to post all of my photos on PhotoBucket. If anyone writes me about how I constructed, e.g., the Hearth Slab supports before the pour, I would tell them to go to image #14 at

http://photobucket.com/albums/a318/marceld/?sc=1

and then I would explain what I did, on the forum to which the question was addressed. But that requires an external URL. It would be so much easier if the link could be achieved from within this forum.

James

(M) You mentioned as a follow up that you hope to bring in the old photos from the Yahoo group into the Photo "Forum". If that can be done then it should be equally possible to bring all the Photos thus far, into this Photo ALBUM.

(M) I hope this is not viewed as a negative. You have Great forums with super input! It would be even better if the information and images posted here could be found more easily.

Ciao,

Marcel

__________________
Forno Bravo
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[steffen]

Great Progress Marcel

Your progress is coming along quite nicely, do you have a target date for completion?

Its been a few weekends since i have been able to make any progress on the monstrosity in my backyard. My neighbour has already come over in concern a few times ( i live right in the middle of the city) Wait till the smoke starts rising... I will be working on the block again tomorrow, rain or shine, and will have some good pictures by the end of the day. There are still many questions to be answered throughout the rest of the project, but I hope to have the pizza's ready for halloween. Wait till the kids see this one....

Steffen

[paulages]

yeah, marcel. can't wait to see your oven completed. we'll have to get together sometime and see each other's ovens. i plan to (start to) finish my arch, vent, and wall framing this week. i've had a million things to do preventing me from finishing, but you and i are on the same deadline. RAIN!!!

[Marcel]

For me finishing is not a goal but a process

#34

(M) Dear Steffen, and Paul,

Thank you both for your positive support. No, Steffen, I do not have a target goal for it's completion, though as Paul correctly points out, rain in the North West can place some serious constraints on this project. If it rains while I'm still working, I'll throw a tarp over the whole project.

(M) I hope this doesn't sound like I'm pontificating but I try to approach as much in my life as a process; I want the verb "building", and not the noun, "building" to be my motivating force. I've read some posts that allude to the cooking in front of an outdoor oven to be almost a Zen like experience. Others find the process of laying the bricks to be a calming and spiritual exercise. I'd like to be in that company. It is not easy staying focused in the "now" so although I may be speaking somewhat paradoxically, the "process" is my goal, I often think of the Beatles line, "Life is what happens when we're making other plans." I'm trying to strike a balance between judicious planning, and a perspective of "Carpe Diem" and at this stage of my life I find I need to favor "Carpe Diem". In an earlier posting I quoted a less sensitive teacher annoucing before an algebra test: "Plan your work, work your plan, fail to plan, plan to fail" so I appreciate the perils of a lack of foresight, but I think all of us need to be OK with the so called flaws we alone recognize in our work; but equally important is enjoying the process of building.

(M) WHEW ! You sure didn't expect to precipitate such a long winded monologue from your well intentioned support. I apologize if I lectured :-(
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(M) I posted a few more photos on PhotoBucket and I probably should explain why I asked my cousin to take those shots:

#40, and #41 show the angle iron over the throat-tunnel entrance because in an exchange I believe was between Robert & Jim, one of them, I believe it was Robert, left a drawing of the angle iron at www.cpsusa.com/ebay/angleiron2.jpg

and referred to it, I believe as either a Teepee, or a pup-tent orientation. It could also lay on one of it's 2" legs. Jim Hatch responded with a detailed explanation of an easier way to approach this phase. The 2 photos I listed on

http://photobucket.com/albums/a318/marceld/?sc=1

might serve to help someone visualize his or her options.

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#42 shows a container with some lumpy powder in it. That powder is the silt resulting from numerous brick cuts. Someone else needed such fireclay and laboriously hammered brick chips to create it. I suggest that when you empty the water tray on your tile cutter, don't throw out the baby (chip powder) with the bath water. If you enlarge that thumb nail you will notice a pinch of that powder next to a fine gap I left between the firebricks. At some point I'll use that powder as a matching color base for a refractory mortar to fill that gap. And although "I think all of us need to be OK with the so called flaws we alone recognize in our work" it's OK to correct them if it is easy to do.

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btw: Many may be asking, "Why doesn't Marcel put the pictures on this forum?" The answer is that I'm trying to practice what I preach. I feel that the Photos section is where photos belong and this Forum is "Sharing my Progress". I almost wrote, "Sharing my Process" ;-)

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(M) #44 shows the first 2 uncompleted courses, the Lazy Susan under the throat, a spray bottle to occasionally wet the bricks which get dry despite dunking, and the pink vanes of high density styrofoam on my truck.

(M) #45 shows the vanes inside the dome circumference and me adjusting the angle iron for the opening support.

(M) #46 shows why I will probably have to give up on the Lazy Susan. In order to be able to turn it, I needed to enlarge the first ring about 1/2". A close up view of this photo will show that the vanes extend over the pencil circle of 42" drawn on the fire brick. In order to have the opening where I want it, i.e. a 20" width line segment on an arc of the circle, I will have to give up turning Susan and just lay the bricks along the vanes.

Ciao,

Marcel