floor tiles

[artigiano]

in a commercial oven what benifits are there in using tile rather than bricks for the oven floor?

[james]

The advantages of a pie-shaped tile floor are:

1. There are fewer joints, which makes the pizzaiolo's life easier.
2. Fewer ridges to catch the peel.
3. Easier to install
4. Easier to replace (many years down the road).
5. Better thermal characteristics. The dome should rest on the insulating hearth, around the cooking floor; not on the oven floor itself.

Here, where it is easier to find round cooking floor tiles, you find that a majority of the site-built restaurant ovens use floor tiles. Equally, a large and growing percentage of restaurants buy commercially-made ovens, rather than paying a mason to build one.
James

[Les]

James - bullet No. 5 is an interesting statement. The oven plans call for the dome to rest on the floor. Would it be better to cut the floor into a circle and build the dome around it?

[james]

Les,

As a rule, it is better for the dome to rest around the cooking floor, not on it. That design offers better heat retention and cooking, and gives you more flexibility with the floor itself. The floor becomes a discrete piece of the oven, not that on which everything sits.

All of the the FB ovens have a "dome around floor" design, from the smallest Casa to the large commercial ovens.

For builders, the questions is whether it is worth the effort to cut bricks for the floor, and build the dome around the cooking floor. PaulAges did it that way; it's more work and more challenge. I am very open to this discussion, though we need to be pretty careful on how we handle it. I sometimes wonder if we already give too many options with the basic oven plans.

Whatya think? I am happy to modify the plans, if builders think that is a good idea.

Wait a minute. I get to poke fun at a competitor. There is a line of French-made ovens where the dome sits on the floor. For a commercial producer (they do this for a living) -- that is not good. Shame on them.

James

[artigiano]

is there any concerns with oven expansion or anything like that? This is the first I have hear of the dome going around the floor. Very interesting!

[artigiano]

are you saying that the dome bricks should be on the refractory concrete instead of the brick floor?

[jengineer]

Artie - the floor and the dome are resting on an insulating layer not a refractory (heat absorbing layer).

[james]

Forno Bravo Modena

Artigiano,
The dome rests on the insulating layer, just as the cooking floor does -- around the floor. There is an expansion gap between the dome and floor. Without easy access to round floor tiles outside of Italy, it is a lot easier for home owners to assemble the dome on the cooking floor, but fundamentally, it is not as efficient a design.

I am working on a series of photos that show the installation process for the new Forno Bravo Modena, a high-end commercial oven, that shows this very clearly, but I won't be ready to post it until tomorrow. Stand by.

The Modena is a great oven, and installation sequence photos are very instructional. In this case, the cooking floor is cast a single piece ( of which the producer is very proud) -- no seams at all.

More on that later, but the answer to your question is yes. The dome rests on the insulating layer (not a concrete layer), which is how all the FB ovens are designed.
James

[carioca]

casting about for answers...

James:
The Modena is a great oven, and installation sequence photos are very instructional. In this case, the cooking floor is cast a single piece ( of which the producer is very proud) -- no seams at all.

Hi there! This may be just the shot for me: my delivery arrived yesterday after incredible hassles, and when I took off the cling wrap today, there was everything BUT the 25 hearth tiles!

How would I go about casting a seamless floor inside the (future) oven?

Kind regards,

Carioca

[carioca]

Is this a 'slip joint'?

Artie - the floor and the dome are resting on an insulating layer not a refractory (heat absorbing layer).

Hi, jengineer! Do I read this 'resting on' bit as referring to a slip joint, i.e. not rpt not mortared in place? (I'm still trying to get my head around the construction details...)

Cheers,

Carioca

[james]

These oven producers cast floor and dome pieces for a living -- including mixing custom refractories. Think how many times they messed it up before they got it right and went into production (30 years ago). I wouldn't try it myself.
James

[artigiano]

I still dont understand this insulating floor either? My previous oven I used 2.5 inches vermiculite concrete placed inside the 6 inch refractory concrete with the bricks directly over the concrete slab. I am trying to figure out what type of insulation you are talking about? Let me know, thanks!

[james]

Artigiano,

Check out this photo journal. I think it might make the hearth layers question more clear.

http://www.fornobravo.com/commercial..._install1.html

Also, here is a postings here that might help.

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=693

Last, here is a graphic from the FB installation guides,

Hope this helps.

Janes

[artigiano]

where can this type of insulation tile be purchased? Is it unhelathy to have loose vermiculite poured in the dome?

[dmun]

where can this type of insulation tile be purchased?

Any refractory dealer will have some sort of insulation board. I used Insblock19, made by Harbison-Walker, which I got cheap on eBay. Forno bravo sells the excellent super-isol.

Is it unhelathy to have loose vermiculite poured in the dome?

Not at all. House style enclosured are designed to be filled with loose vermiculite. It's asbestos free, inert, and not considered a health hazard. I would be careful about any kind of dust in the lungs, though.