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A Dutch goeiemorgen to all

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  • A Dutch goeiemorgen to all

    So a proper good morning to all! I've been lurking and endlessly reading your forum and the Pompeii building plans for a while now and would like to join you with my first questions.

    I've wanted a wfo for a while now and last year my parents bought me a tiny terracotta oven thingy which actually did a decent job at firing small pizza's. Nothing else, but real decent pizza's next to the hot coals, done before I could blink my eyes, but it needed rest between the pizza's to get hot again. It did heat up from zero to inferno in under 15 minutes.
    my eldest son (5 years old) sadly broke it so no outdoor cooked pizza's for me this year.

    We where and are planning to build a real WFO, in our yet to build outdoor kitchen on our yet to build covered patio. We'll be doing everything ourselves, from scratch, for as cheap as possible, with stuff from the Dutch Craigslist, Marktplaats. Our plans are adaptable to building materials we can source but right now we're planning on an concrete patio which can serve as oven and outdoor kitchen foundation. I'm thinking of letting a company deliver second hand reinforced concrete slabs as patio, two slabs sized 200x200 and one 100x200. Patio will measure 200x500cm.

    first question would be the maximum axel load the plates should be able to withstand.

    the oven will either be a corner build 36 inch with shelves build in next to it since the oven space is 200x140 or an slight oval with some extra insulation. The corner build would have the entry arch angeled away from the seating area, with an oval build the entry would point straight to the seating, and use up all the space possible, my preference.

    we'll probably br using red clay fired bricks for the oven dome, either firebrick or terra cotta tiles for the hearth floor, home brew mortars, perlite isolation, etc. We've bought a fixer upper house which steel needs a redo of the kitchen and bathroom, funds are directed that way for the next five years. I'm not going to wait that long before building my oven so I'm scavenging everything from everywhere. Firebrick is expensive, red fired clay bricks are often free in our neighborhood.

    I do want a proper oven foundation and stand so that when we can redo the oven properly in a couple of years, we only have to redo the oven dome and encasing materials. I'm thinking of building the dome freestanding from the hearth floor and insulating it with loose perlite. Maybe even building an air heath break between the dome and the vent area and only use perlcrete isolation here to keep the loose stuff out of the dome but still make it relatively easy to redo the dome without wrecking the vent in the process.

    for the rest, we are a very average family, two kids and a dog. I love to bake and cook, it's my main hobby, next to reading, knitting, sewing and my vegetable patch in the garden. My husband is a tinkerer who builds me my idea's with a little help from me (I do the modernization and electricity stuff, he does de main building stuff) and a lot of help from the tools we inherited from my grandfather the master carpenter and his father the plumber.

    my favorites to cook are slow-cooked meals, breads, beautifully decorated cakes and gellato.


  • #2
    Welcome to the forum! We did all the work ourselves (oven and shelter), other than pouring the patio slab, so if you take your time you will have a fine kitchen. I think folks will have trouble guessing how much load your second hand slabs will carry - you should post how thick they are and how much steel you think are in them and maybe someone will be able to help. I'd probably put the oven on one of the bigger slabs and make sure the earth is extra-suitably prepared (packed, crushed rock, etc.) under the area the oven will sit to avoid settling and cracking. Do you have any sketches of your two proposed designs? We built ours in a corner but mainly because it fit in the space we had and put the oven in the right orientation to avoid prevailing winds and maximize our outdoor space. I'd also suggest looking for a good used brick saw - it will be invaluable in building your oven, and if you have a fixer-upper house you can use it for any tile work you plan on doing.
    My build thread
    https://community.fornobravo.com/for...h-corner-build

    Comment


    • #3
      Normally the oven is built over a reinforced 100mm concrete supporting slab. The strength required from this slab can be reduced a lot if you cantilever it over its vertical supports, reducing their span. Because the weight of the insulation space and outer shell are much less than the inner parts of the oven, it makes more since to place the support closer to heavier weight.

      you may be able to get away with using solid red bricks for the dome, some are suitable, some not, but it is wise to use firebricks for the floor which takes more of a beating.

      regarding the brick saw, purchase is preferable to hire as you will be needing it for an extended period. As Mike suggested, buying a decent 2nd hand one is a worthwhile investment, if you don't want to keep it you should be able to sell it for what you paid for it.
      Last edited by david s; 03-10-2017, 05:56 PM.
      Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

      Comment


      • #4
        David, I believe she was asking about the strength of some large rectangular concrete slabs that have been reclaimed where they would be laying them down as the patio, not the hearth under the oven.
        My build thread
        https://community.fornobravo.com/for...h-corner-build

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JRPizza View Post
          David, I believe she was asking about the strength of some large rectangular concrete slabs that have been reclaimed where they would be laying them down as the patio, not the hearth under the oven.
          Ah, yes. My apologies. I didn't read the rather long post carefully enough. The thickness of those slabs, which you didn't quote, may be the determining factor.
          Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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          • #6
            i don't understand the request for strength/ axel loads on the recycled patio slabs, are you intending to drive over them

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            • #7
              First, thanks for the welcome and my apologies for my rambling stile of typing, English is clearly not my language of choice

              The slabs are used in industries and as "erfverharding" which would be pavement for a farmers yard. Axel load relates to the maximum weight that can be driven over these things without damaging it. (somewhere between 1 and 4 tons depending on thickness)

              most are somewhere between 14 cm and 20 cm thick and reinforced inside and have corner irons on the outside. Some places sell these with a brick pattern on top but those are about 100 euros a piece including placement.

              we're thinking of digging down 40 cm, 20 crushed rock, then 10 cm sand and then the 14 cm slab. This would make the slab sit slightly higher than the ground which seems like a positive considering all the rain we get in fall and winter.

              I hope this will make the slabs secure enough. We live in an area with heavy clay soil which used to be peat. Soft ground with high ground water levels (like, we dug a hole to burry our dearly departed rabbit and when my husband reached a depth of about 80 cm the hole started filling up with water. This was in fall during a very heavy rainy period so groundwater level was considerably higher then during the summer when he dug the foundation holes for our carport and he encountered no water whatsoever but still)

              I'll try and include my designs in another post, but that seems difficult.

              Comment


              • #8
                given your description the slabs will be sufficient for anything you intend to do including a foundation slab for the oven base, the only other consideration would be any frost line in your area, we don't have that issue in Northern Australia so cannot comment in that regard

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