Another new addict

[Triggaaar]

But, I don't think you are going to save much if you are looking at the pre-cuts still. Seem to be paying a lot for the cuts.

Agreed, it's basically the same. What's the cheapest option for cutting? I have a 4" angle grinder, could I use it to part cut the bricks, and then hammer the rest?

[Triggaaar]

I'm concerned about the amount of wood people are needing to bring their ovens up to temperature. It's fine when you're cooking loads, but seems a bit of a waste when just doing a few pizzas.

Presumably larger ovens require more fuel to get to temperature, but is there much difference between a 30", 36" and 42" in terms of fuel to get to temp (Neapolitan temp)?
And how about the thermal mass? Is there much difference between and oven that has 3" of firebrick for the dome, vs 4.5"?
And finally, does the amount of insulation affect it much? I assume that's mainly for keeping the oven hot for hours for cooking other foods, and it doesn't make so much difference in the time it takes to bring to temp.

[wotavidone]

I'm thinking a full on brick oven is not for you. Firewood in the Old Dart might not be a free for the collecting thing, I'm thinking. Unlike here in OZ, where if you aren't careful the gumtrees drop their branches on your head gratis.

Fortunately you have access to things like this:
https://uk.uuni.net/products/uuni-pr...d-outdoor-oven

https://www.roccbox.com/gb/product/

Might look a bit expensive, but very cheap on fuel I reckon.

[wotavidone]

And there is always the possibility of finding an old gas cylinder or some such, and making your own version of a roccbox type thingy.
With regard to the insulation, an important but often underrated function is to minimise the temperature differential from inside to outside the dome, which minimises cracking from uneven expansion.

[Triggaaar]

I'm thinking a full on brick oven is not for you. Firewood in the Old Dart

I figured Old Dart would be some kind of pickup truck, so I looked it up to check. It means England Who knew?

might not be a free for the collecting thing, I'm thinking. Unlike here in OZ, where if you aren't careful the gumtrees drop their branches on your head gratis.

I can get plenty of pine for free (will use in the house, I know it's not for cooking). I might be able to get oak, and then store it long enough to season. But I need to go to my mum's or brother's to get in, half an hour away. The sort of thing I'd pick up when visiting, so not ideal if I'm using a lot.

Fortunately you have access to things like this:
https://uk.uuni.net/products/uuni-pr...d-outdoor-oven

https://www.roccbox.com/gb/product/

Might look a bit expensive, but very cheap on fuel I reckon.

Yeah I've looked at those. I've considered a Weber kettle, a kamado joe, a roccbox (I'd rather a blackstone as they're less than half the price) and a WFO. I want to do grilling, pizzas, the odd slow cook.

The kettle would do the grilling, can slow cook with effort, and I could get an attachment to have a go at pizzas, but it's not ideal. The kamado is great for most things, except pizza (can be done, not ideal). I could get a kettle and Roccbox, but the latter is a fair bit of cash just for pizzas, and not as much fun as a WFO. A WFO looks like it could do it all basically, would look good and it wouldn't rust in our humid climate. As above, my main concern with it would be the amount of wood required to get it to temperature. Could I not just design it to not be overly greedy on the front?

[Gulf]

Small pine limbs or split pine logs (as long as they are properly dried) work fine for the initial heating of the WFO. The temps achieved when the dome clears will burn off all the nasties in the wood. Just take it slow at the start. Pine burns fast. If not careful, the brick can heat up a little too quickly. Once the dome starts to clear, start adding the oak. That will stretch your hardwood supply.

[Triggaaar]

Small pine limbs or split pine logs (as long as they are properly dried) work fine for the initial heating of the WFO.

This is a big deal for me. I can chop my own pine. Your comment has lead me to google and read up on it, and it seems that for basic fires, pine is fine - as long as it's well seasoned.

The temps achieved when the dome clears will burn off all the nasties in the wood. Just take it slow at the start. Pine burns fast. If not careful, the brick can heat up a little too quickly. Once the dome starts to clear, start adding the oak. That will stretch your hardwood supply.

Thanks. Once the oven is largely heated up, what's against using pine vs a hardwood then?

Also, do you have tips on making the oven easier to heat up with less fuel in the first place (eg, recommended wall thickness)?

[Gulf]

I can only speak for the pine trees that I'm familiar with. There are many different species. The small knots in pine tend to pop hot burning embers on to the food. I would always switch to hardwood before cooking. The first smoke off of a newly added piece to the fire will give off some nasty tasting smoke.

I think that 2" is what is recommended as the minimum for cast domes and 3" is about the minimum for brick construction. But then, you are sacrificing heat retention time by going thinner. It's really up to what you finally decide will be the average purpose for your oven.

[wotavidone]

I figured Old Dart would be some kind of pickup truck, so I looked it up to check. It means England Who knew?

The 5% of Aussies and Kiwis who are still defending the old ways against the cultural dilution of unfettered immigration. Of course without immigration, boiled beef and veg would be our national dish.

[Triggaaar]

I can only speak for the pine trees that I'm familiar with. There are many different species. The small knots in pine tend to pop hot burning embers on to the food. I would always switch to hardwood before cooking. The first smoke off of a newly added piece to the fire will give off some nasty tasting smoke.

That's no trouble, the problem with cooking a Neapolitan is the amount off wood required to bring the oven up to temperature. Once there, a few pieces of better wood is no bother.

I think that 2" is what is recommended as the minimum for cast domes and 3" is about the minimum for brick construction. But then, you are sacrificing heat retention time by going thinner. It's really up to what you finally decide will be the average purpose for your oven.

I guess I wouldn't know until I had one, but I'm generally thinking pizzas, and grilling on a tuscan grill or skillet. Ribs sometimes would be nice, and it would be good to be able to do a Boston Butt, but not as often as pizzas and sausages/kebabs. I'd also have a go at using it like any oven/hob/grill. Since it can do it, it would be silly not to have a go at bread, but that's not a big deal.

I saw a video with someone showing the amount of wood required to get their oven up to temp for pizzas, and it gave me some concern. No trouble for a pizza party, but when you're just doing 4 pizzas for the family it seems a bit of a waste.

Using the FB 36" Pompeii oven plans as an example, how much wood do you think you would need to bring the oven to 900 F?

[wotavidone]

Once the oven is largely heated up, what's against using pine vs a hardwood then?

Also, do you have tips on making the oven easier to heat up with less fuel in the first place (eg, recommended wall thickness)?

My thoughts on fire wood:
Most timbers have quite similar calorific values per unit mass.
If, as seems common in the US, wood is supplied by volume, you will get less BTU's from a cord of pine than from a cord of denser hardwood.
Minor issue if you can choose, and no issue if the wood is free or you buy it by weight.
Here in Oz, the pines are quite resinous, so are not recommended for cooking food but make great kindling.
Pine gives off its energy really quickly - i.e. it burns pretty quick.
Suggested regime for economical consumption of firewood -
Start fire with scraps of pine (and pine cones) for kindling.
Use thicker bits of pine (less surface area per unit weight = slower burn) to bring oven to temperature.
Don't overload/overfuel the beast.
Swap to hardwood for actual cooking.
I find thin branches of hardwood usually left behind by firewood collectors are good for keeping a small continuous flame going in the oven.

Don't skimp too much on thermal mass, and insulate. There are two ways to go -
Old school vermicrete/perlcrete,
Or high tech ceramic blanket and Cal/sil board.
Here in Oz where we have mild temperatures and readily available timbers - old school is adequate.
In England - high tech. Especially don't skimp on underfloor insulation

[wotavidone]

Thermal mass - 4 inches of ordinary red brick, or three inches of real firebrick I reckon.

[Triggaaar]

Thank you as always

My thoughts on fire wood:
Most timbers have quite similar calorific values per unit mass.
If, as seems common in the US, wood is supplied by volume, you will get less BTU's from a cord of pine than from a cord of denser hardwood.
Minor issue if you can choose, and no issue if the wood is free or you buy it by weight.
Here in Oz, the pines are quite resinous, so are not recommended for cooking food but make great kindling.
Pine gives off its energy really quickly - i.e. it burns pretty quick.
Suggested regime for economical consumption of firewood -
Start fire with scraps of pine (and pine cones) for kindling.
Use thicker bits of pine (less surface area per unit weight = slower burn) to bring oven to temperature.
Don't overload/overfuel the beast.
Swap to hardwood for actual cooking.
I find thin branches of hardwood usually left behind by firewood collectors are good for keeping a small continuous flame going in the oven.

All sounds good.

Don't skimp too much on thermal mass, and insulate. There are two ways to go -
Old school vermicrete/perlcrete,
Or high tech ceramic blanket and Cal/sil board.
Here in Oz where we have mild temperatures and readily available timbers - old school is adequate.
In England - high tech. Especially don't skimp on underfloor insulation

High tech sounds good.

Thermal mass - 4 inches of ordinary red brick, or three inches of real firebrick I reckon.

I'm only really considering proper firebricks, and it seems that 3" or full size cut in half (4.5") will be the same price. Do you think I'll be able to reach 900 F much quicker with 3" of thermal mass vs 4.5" (say a 36" Pompeii oven)?

[Gulf]

Your brick will go a lot farther if cutting into thirds with a wet saw is possible.

[wotavidone]

It's difficult to articulate, but I'll try -
With regard to thermal mass, based on the three ovens I have assisted in the building and running of, I do not think there is much difference at all in the time taken to get measurable pizza temperature on the surface.

Remembering that the bricks have a thermal conductivity, you get the surface hot, then the heat wicks away at a slower pace to heat the rest of the brick.
So, if you have a thin brick dome, and you get the surface hot to cook a pizza, there is less brick behind it to wick the heat away and less time required to recover heat for the next pizza with the live fire.
Note: with live fire. Good insulation will help a lot, to make sure that heat doesn't simply escape to atmosphere.
This is the way it seems to go with an insulated oven that is quickly brought to temperature for a midweek pizza for the family, but has not been saturated.
When you do wish to heat to saturation, thinner dome will require less fire to saturate.

When the oven is heated to saturation, i.e. the bricks are as close to evenly heated all the way through as possible, then the extra thermal mass of a thick dome comes into its own.
Then the surface temperature of the brick as required for a good pizza recovers quickly between pizzas, etc. even if the live fire isn't very live.
The big thing with thermal mass is for retained heat baking. There is only so much heat you can store in a given mass that you heat with a fire in the dome.

I much admire the FB Artigiano oven core. It's only three inches thick with the outer layer of refractory over the brick, and the FB plans say half a firebrick thick is a high but acceptable thermal mass for a residential oven. If you aren't planning on cooking for three days from a single firing three inches is going to be plenty.
I take it the 3 inch v 4.5 inch is the same price if you are buying pre-cut?

I also think the largest, thickest oven I have been involved with, although uninsulated because the owner just couldn't bring himself to cover up the lovely looking brick work is the easiest to manage heat wise.