Brick Oven (Gas fired)

[david s]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

You are really meant to have a flame failure device on your burner if you are using it in an enclosed application. Almost everyone who has tried a gas burner with a wood oven ends up ditching it in preference for wood only. It costs considerably more presuming your wood is free, the gas doesn't give enough BTU's in a hurry like wood and it just seems incongruous to the whole idea of wood firing. Our local wood fired pizza restaurant uses a gas fired oven which they throw a little wood in for decorative purposes, but maintaining a high temp for a commercial restaurant all night is difficult with wood. They actually do a really good job and produce great pizza.

[lwalper]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

Agreed! In your house?—without some serious safety precautions?—

I had thought that I might use a bit of gas with my weed burner for the occasional heat recharging if needed (just because it's clean and I wouldn't need to build a new fire for loaf baking), but as a sole source of heat—probably not.

[Aldream]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

You are really meant to have a flame failure device on your burner if you are using it in an enclosed application. Almost everyone who has tried a gas burner with a wood oven ends up ditching it in preference for wood only. It costs considerably more presuming your wood is free, the gas doesn't give enough BTU's in a hurry like wood and it just seems incongruous to the whole idea of wood firing. Our local wood fired pizza restaurant uses a gas fired oven which they throw a little wood in for decorative purposes, but maintaining a high temp for a commercial restaurant all night is difficult with wood. They actually do a really good job and produce great pizza.

Unfortunately, wood is not free here; as a matter of fact, it is more expensive that gas. Although almost every local restaurant around here has a brick oven, I have never seen one that uses wood. They either use deisel or gas for firing.

[Aldream]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

Yep, those are HUGE holes in the pipe. At low pressures and gas flows that's great, but when the flow increases you will blow more gas and blow it faster than the flame front can travel. There's a particular velocity that gases in various air/fuel mixtures like to burn. You're blowing pure fuel out those holes and snuffing out the flame with excess fuel (more than it can burn at the time). What you've got there is a good setup for a fireplace, but not so good for what you're trying to accomplish.

Check these Raku venturi burners: Ward Burner Systems - Power Burners, Raku Burners, and Kilns

This problem occurs when I increase the air opening. I was thinking that the holes might be actually too small.

So you think if the burner had smaller holes it might burn better?

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

Aldream,
I attatched the pics below for reference, The burners shown are made from 1 inch black pipe and assorted plumbing parts from hardware store.. If you could set the burner tubes in the oven somehow I think they would provide enough heat.. The hole for the gas flow on the burners I made is less than or about 1mm... you can search these on the web they are called venturi burners, I can also send you a copy of the plans if you like... I ues them for my forge,, I dont know if this is any kind of solution, but thought it would provide some food for thought... One of these burners can heat a railroad spike to red hot all the way thru in less than 2 minutes,, and they are very gas efficient

good luck
Mark

[lwalper]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

Here are a few construction tips for this type burner:

A simple homemade propane burner

Venturi burners

It looks like your pipes with the existing holes would be fine to use as the are -- if there were a mixture of gas/air (a venturi device) in the line. That safety cutoff thermocouple also looks like a "must have" item. Talk to your installer - he should be able to fix you up with the appropriate flame producer.

It sure would be nice to get some heat on the oven floor (the hearth). Maybe additional holes in the pipes that would also blow flame across the hearth?

[Aldream]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

Aldream,
I attatched the pics below for reference, The burners shown are made from 1 inch black pipe and assorted plumbing parts from hardware store.. If you could set the burner tubes in the oven somehow I think they would provide enough heat.. The hole for the gas flow on the burners I made is less than or about 1mm... you can search these on the web they are called venturi burners, I can also send you a copy of the plans if you like... I ues them for my forge,, I dont know if this is any kind of solution, but thought it would provide some food for thought... One of these burners can heat a railroad spike to red hot all the way thru in less than 2 minutes,, and they are very gas efficient

good luck
Mark

Thank you Mark. These burners look simple and effective. I would appreciate it if you could send me the plans.

[Aldream]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

Here are a few construction tips for this type burner:

A simple homemade propane burner

Venturi burners

It looks like your pipes with the existing holes would be fine to use as the are -- if there were a mixture of gas/air (a venturi device) in the line. That safety cutoff thermocouple also looks like a "must have" item. Talk to your installer - he should be able to fix you up with the appropriate flame producer.

It sure would be nice to get some heat on the oven floor (the hearth). Maybe additional holes in the pipes that would also blow flame across the hearth?

Thank you for the links. I read through and found the following note: "Larger holes may create problems as the pressurized propane may extinguish the flame". You're probably right, this might be the problem. I think I will modify the holes and see how it goes.

As for the safety valve, I definitely should have that. I will make sure that I add it to my new burner setup. I wouldn't want to get my wife burned! or would I?

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

Hi aldream,
the links that lwalper posted is almost the same as what i have,,, they also look a little easier to build than mine... keep us posted on how it goes,
cheers
mark

[Aldream]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

I will definetely keep you posted. I am working 12 hours these days and once I go back to my normal working schedule, I will start working on it.

[dmun]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

I really need to say that it is the policy of Forno Bravo that gas burners shouldn't be used in home brick ovens, because they aren't safe. I think this discussion should be taken elsewhere.

[RTflorida]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

I have to agree with David, this thread keeps getting closer and closer to disaster. It is one thing to propose and build a gas oven professionally with all of the correct components that one would see in a commercial application - sorry to say, in my opinion, this build has "jerry rig", "backyard built" written all over it. Home made burners? pieced together, basically, experimental components?
This is GAS, in an ENCLOSED space, WITHIN YOUR HOME! Dude, there is no fudge factor here, if you guess wrong - your DEAD, or at the very least - BLOW UP YOUR HOUSE.

I promise...I will not post another word on this thread, and I hope the forum agrees that none of us need to be encouraging or offering advice via an online forum on such a potentially dangerous topic.

RT

[james]

Re: Brick Oven (Gas fired)

Hi guys,

I have to agree with Dmun. FB does not want anyone to think that a gas burner is a safe alternative in a residential oven -- and I want to say again that the danger is greater than someone getting burned, and we recommend strongly against using a gas burner in a home oven.

I want to ask that you guys move this discussion to a new location outside of www.fornobravo.com. Thanks for your understanding.

Here is the FB position (again) on gas fired home ovens.

Thanks, and Happy Holidays!

James