brick vs. pre-cast

[jmargush]

I am planning on building a Pompeii oven this spring/summer in north central Indiana.

I have started researching and am wondering if there is a consensus as to whether brick is better than precast?

Cost?

I know install time is faster with precast but I would enjoy the craft of building the oven. Really curious if one is less expensive than the other?

If I went with brick, is there a certain type of firebrick I need to ask for?

what is the name of the insulation board used under the oven floor? what type of re-seller would have this?

[makiojisan]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

I have a similar question, please? I'm a firs timer and considering buying a morso forno black iron stove. it's a dome shape and looks good and the youtube videos look impressive, but some say iron stoves aren't the way to go? it does have a stone floor but I'm just wondering what anyone here thinks please?

[texman]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

J
Welcome to the forum!

As far as cost, the raw materials for a brick oven will be much less that a precast. But, depending on what value you put on your time, the handmade brick oven will be much more. The real choice is do you want an oven you made or one that somebody else made. precast ovens from FB are quality and very efficient; your hand made brick oven will be as will if you follow the forum recommendations.

the suppliers you are looking for are refractory suppliers mainly for brick, insulation, etc. Forno bravo has the insulation board you need for under the floor and that is what i used because i could not source it locally. it is lightweight so shipping is not that expensive.

Most important, find the plans on the FB website for a pompeii oven. i can send you the link if need it. It will cover about 90% of what you need to know to get started including the correct brick with the correct amount of alumina to withstand the temps of the oven.

Good luck and i hope this helps.

Texman

[Tony Ripepi]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

Hello All,

Fresh caught here and following the dream to have a wood fired pizza oven in my back yard.

Based on the question above what is the shipment cost and weight of the precast oven and are there any issues with unloading , putting the precast into place once it is shipped and it arrives?

Tony R.

[dakzaag]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

I can attest to the ease of installation with a precast unit. Last weekend we constructed a 36" unit on top of a dry stack ring in about 3 hours. What I did not like was how fragile the unit was. A bit of preparation work was done in advance that saved some time, but I could see two guys who are fairly handy putting something similar up in an afternoon without much trouble.

It was not insulated properly, so that would take more time, but CalSil board is pretty easy to work with, just not cheap.
It was expensive, almost 4 grand in materials.
It was not finished weather tight. To get it weather tight would add another day or more depending on the finish style you want.
We fired it immediately with waaaay too much wood and the precast unit cracked in a bunch of places. If i had paid for the unit, I would have been royally ticked off. But then again I would not have fired it that hard so it is really hard to say if the design was poor or just abused.
Hand built I can safely say your going to have 3-4 times more effort than you can estimate. That said you will also have 3-4 times more satisfaction when completed.
Good luck with what you decide. I have a 36" hand built just sitting here looking for a new home...

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

A precast oven does not contain the thermal mass that bricks do, and won't provide the benefits of multiple-day residual heat or bread-baking, but will fire to pizza temps quicker than brick. Personally, I would rather cook in and look at a hand-crafted brick oven than cast refractory any day.

[Greenman]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

I built a 36" Pompeii brick oven as my first attempt and am very happy with it 2 years down the track. I was fortunate in being able to source second hand firebricks that for the most part had not been used previously. Some had a previous life in a brick kiln. I use my oven for much of my day to day cooking and once hot it takes very little to recharge the thermal mass. Once you have a plan for what you want to cook and when, get it into the order that gets the heat hungry food first and work your way through it to the foods that need slow cooking.

My son in law has a precast oven and has none of the joy of cooking breakfast in the oven that is hot from last nights dinner. He seems to use a lot more wood than me for less result but I do acknowledge that his is much bigger.

I would not trade my oven for a precast since I really enjoyed the experience and learning of the construction but others enjoy it too. I have since built 2 more very much the same, one for a daughter and one for a friend and they engaged in the build and love their ovens.

As for cost, since I am in Australia my costings would not provide a reasonable comparison for you but I ended up with the oven and all of the associated infrastructure for less than half of the cost of a locally available precast kit that does not include a base. In my case the bricks saved me heaps since I got them for about a quarter of the local cost (and they are expensive here - like $5 a brick new).

For my 2 cents worth, if you have the time and want the satisfaction of building your own then the brick oven is the go, if you want something much quicker and the cost is less important then plenty are happy with their precast ovens.

Welcome to the forum and all the best with your build, whichever way you choose to go.

[JAG]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

I tend to disagree a little with Greenman and Gianni. I have a 42" brick oven in my yard and a FB CASA2G100 as a mobile unit. Granted my brick oven does hold temp nicely, my mobile, which is cast, holds temp just as good, and that is with a steel plate door w/no insulation.

After a 3hr baking session my mobile (cast oven) with door on is at 400-450F 20hrs out and 200-225 second day out. I have done many one and two day post fire cooking and low and slow bakes.

Granted there are some design and size differences but my cast oven performs just as good as my brick oven.

J

[Tony Ripepi]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

Hi Guys,

Good thread and thank you for the information.

I have not started my process but in the planning stages.

What are the considerations for the logistics of moving the precast, weight, physical dimensions, how do you lift move etc.

When building from Brick, blocks materials for mixing pouring concrete etc. I am familiar with but how does one maneuver the precast components.

Tony R.

[shuboyje]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

With equal mass most castable will retain more heat then most brick due to higher density. It will also heat faster and more evenly due to the lack of joints. There is a reason monolithics have replaced brick in every industry that uses refractory.

Just like block buildings vs. precast concrete, brick still has it's advantages. You can get a pile of generic brick and build just about anything quickly, where as with a monolithic you need a complex form and a harder to source material that can be intimidating to use.

And yes, I have built, owned and used ovens built both ways.

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

I stand corrected on cast ceramic heat retention. I have a difficult time understanding how a 2"-thick cast dome can retain as much heat as a 4.5" thick firebrick dome, but your numbers support that it does. This is a plus since a monolithic dome is easier to mass-produce than a hand-built brick oven, as well as transport and install quickly.

[shuboyje]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

I stand corrected on cast ceramic heat retention. I have a difficult time understanding how a 2"-thick cast dome can retain as much heat as a 4.5" thick firebrick dome, but your numbers support that it does. This is a plus since a monolithic dome is easier to mass-produce than a hand-built brick oven, as well as transport and install quickly.

Not exactly. The key point is all things being equal. 4.5" of castable will hold(marginally) more heat then 4.5" of brick. 2" of castable will not. Just like there is no rule that says brick must be 4.5" thick, there is no rule that castable has to be 2". I've just designed a 4" thick cast oven for a pizza truck within the last few months.

Your comment does bring up another strong point of monolithics. The castable I prefer can be cast as thin as 1-1/4". That allows you to build low mass ovens that fire fast. I know most Pompeii users here like to cook with residual heat for days, but my experience is that most people want an oven that fires fast and easy for pizza, and although they may cook other things in it from time to time they will never plan out multiple days worth of cooking to use all the heat stored in a Pompeii.

[Greenman]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

" I know most Pompeii users here like to cook with residual heat for days, but my experience is that most people want an oven that fires fast and easy for pizza, and although they may cook other things in it from time to time they will never plan out multiple days worth of cooking to use all the heat stored in a Pompeii."

Shuboyje - It is difficult to generalise about such things. Some of us are organised to make the most of our ovens, others not so much. Some of us are not 'most people'.

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

most Pompeii users here like to cook with residual heat for days

I would love to say I do this regularly but it's more spotty that I utilize second-or-third day residual heat. I am just now getting consistent with back-to-back pizza and bread bakes, but with the luxury of free wood and the opportunity to have a beer while firing the oven, I don't mind doing it.

Of course, it would be convenient to use a phone-app to gas-fire the oven on the way home from work, but thats not what WFO's are about.

[the_dr_masuess]

Re: brick vs. pre-cast

It is all about what you want. Do you want the experience of a build and the satisfaction that comes with it... I know I do. If you can source the materials you need locally then definitely take the time to build your own. It will be well worth it. As to cost... It really depends on how good of a bargain hunter you are. I can tell you that I have spent $1950 in materials and about $650 in tools (Saw, Saw Blades, Angle grinder, Cement mixer, etc) My structure is quite oversized and I have everything I will need to complete my oven but the fiber blanket and since I am enclosing mine I have not yet had that cost. If I had only built the WFO not oversized like I have then I could have done it for less that $1000 pretty easily. I got some brick for free from a guy locally and also from an old steel factory that had new high grade firebrick for super cheap cause they were demoing the factory. my 8"x36" SS vent pipe and cap I got for about 35 bucks by being patient and shopping a place here called NPS.

You can be spendy if you have the extra cash around or you can do it cheap!