angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

[johnnybrewmeister]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

I should think waiting a week would be fine. I think concrete cures most of the way in 7 days, and then completely cures after 28 days. But many folks pull the form before the first week.

I went with something very similar to Wiley's plan - lintel or "bond" blocks with bent rebar thru them and down into the vertical columns on the sides of the openings. Seemed smarter, easier, and cheaper. I got all the rebar cut and shaped and in place today, I guess pouring the concrete to fill the cores will have to wait until next weekend.

[Wozza]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

I was also concerned about the size ? and hence price, of the angle. Seemed overkill and Bunnies were looking at something like $180 for a length that size which was long enough for two pieces to span the opening. So I thought a concrete lintel was the way to go.

I made the formwork up at 190x190 to match the blocks and it was as previously described ? the concrete was poured into the holes in the end blocks and then across the gap between them. The top section was 1600mm overall. I made the formwork out of some melamine boards I had lying around, so there should be a nice smooth finish. I had a single reo bar in each of the vertical ends (as I?d done for every other hole in the blockwork wall) and had 4 bars running across the top each about 40mm from the sides and top.

I did a couple of years as a steel fixer when I wore a younger man?s clothes so I thought it wouldn?t be a problem tying the reo together. It went OK, but damn, those ties are pretty sharp when you?ve cut them back. You hardly know you?ve cut yourself until you see the pools of blood everywhere.

Took about an hour to make the formwork, another to cut and tie the 2 x 3.0m lengths of reo and about an hour to mix and pour the 6 x 20 kilo bags of concrete. Total cost about $50. Covered the whole thing with some tarp when I finished and I hosed some water on it this morning.

The question is now?how long do I leave it before removing the formwork? I?m not likely to get to it before next weekend, so would a week be OK?

[NCMan]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

That's the way to go, Johnny. My block walls are full of time capsules, all my concrete mix bags, broken block pieces, old newspapers, Gatorade bottles w/coins and notes......and maybe a beer bottle or three. Other than the corners,filling the walls w/concrete does next to nothing and is a waste of time and money, unless you worry about earthquakes, someone running it over w/a truck, etc. Otherwise, save your money for something that actually makes your oven better, like insulation, heat breaks, etc.

[johnnybrewmeister]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Thanks all - concrete is what I was planning. Never would have thought to add extra cement to it, probably not a bad idea. I like the "time capsule" ideas too...maybe have the kiddos contribute some special items.
Currently re-thinking my angle-iron...you've got me thinking about building my own lintel....as usual for me, overthinking too many easy decisions.

[Wiley]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Johnny,
I used Quikrete when I built my WFO. The ready mixed stuff that comes in both 60lb and 80lb bags. The aggregate in their mix is small (less than 1/2 inch) and it filled the voids in the blocks without creating "rock pockets".

Also, I added a quart container's worth of regular portland cement to each 80lb bag when mixing as IMHO the Quikrete runs a bit lean on the mix. The additional cement makes working easier as well as increasing the strength. If you have a ready mix plant near where you live you might ask if they have "broken bags" of cement which they usually sell very inexpensively. They are not broken bags per se but rather the very strong bags used to contain broken bags of cement filled with the spill that comes off the conveyor belt that moves cement to the funnel that loads the ready mix truck. Often these can be purchased for a couple of bucks each and they weigh more than the usual 94lbs (94lbs being one cubic ft of cement).

Hope this helps,
Wiley

[david s]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

If you want some strength in the cores then fill them with concrete and reo. Otherwise you can use them to dispose of bottles, cans etc. or just leave them. Normal to fill every second core.

Many years ago when cyclone Althea hit our city there were many cases of buildings that were damaged and it was discovered that the cores were filled with screwed up newspaper except those of the top brick, so it appeared that the cores were filled all the way to the top and it looked like they were tied into the floor. Builders cutting corners to save time and cost and less than perfect building inspections. Self regulation at its finest.

[Greenman]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

I filled the corners and every second core and all above the opening. Some of the empty cores I used as a time capsule and put in the papers and magazines of the day. Sample food packaging, drink containers and bottles and a note from me in a bottle. I stuffed cement bags down the empty cores so I could fill the top of them as part of the slab.

I figured that someone will demolish this one day and they might be interested in some reminders of days past.

[johnnybrewmeister]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Forgot to ask...filled the cores with what? grout? mortar? concrete?
Does it matter? if you have ingredient/portion ratios I guess that might help clear up some terminology confusion.

Thanks.

[johnnybrewmeister]

Wiley - gotit - thanks!
A picture works way more than a thousand words for my brain.
Working my way thru your build thread...thanks for documenting it all...giving me some great ideas.

Which reminds me: thanks to ALL who give details/pics of their buids - they are gifts that keep on giving, for people like me who can learn from them YEARS later.

[Wiley]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Here's a link to a photo in my thread:
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/atta...-bond-beam.jpg

The posting after that has photos of the rebar used in the oven support slab. The photo is from post #24 in my thread "Steel Dome Oven".

Bond beams can be built several different ways. In placing rebar it is good to remember that concrete is poor in tension. So the rebar is best if placed nearer the surface that is in tension.

Since the concrete lintel is under tension at the bottom and under compression at the top it is better to be placed nearer the bottom. If it were an overhanging or cantilevered slab placing it nearer the top of the slab is more productive.

Hope this helps,

Wiley

[johnnybrewmeister]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Great story David...I'll bet your submerged oven would win a few photo constests, eh?

Speaking of pics, do you or Wiley or anybody have pics of their build process showing the lintels? I'm having trouble picturing the details...I've googled a bit without luck. Maybe I should try some youtube videos?

Thanks,
Johnny.

[david s]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Regarding CMU's, in Australia there are two types of lintel blocks known as bond beams which have a U shape cast into the middle, or knock outs which are like a standard stretcher with cuts cast into the centres so you can simply knock the centres out. Or, as Wiley said you can make your own, although you have to be very careful not to break the whole brick.Anyway it is a much better way to do it than muck around with angle iron.
Regarding natural disasters, one of my ovens went through cyclone Yasi (a Cat 5), in 2013 I think. The oven was entirely underwater, from tidal surge, the house being on the beach, but miralulously undamaged, even the flue was still in place. After drying out it functioned normally again and is still in use today.

[Wiley]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

Laurentius, I surly didn't wish to come across as filled with hubris.

The idea is to be as resistant as possible and within reason, to improve the odds of survival in the event of "The Big One". "Event resistant" might be a better term.

IMHO surviving any calamity is most often a matter of luck. That being said there is nothing wrong with increasing the odds of surviving and minimizing damage in any calamity....wearing a seat belt, bicycle helmet, having an escape route etc. And beyond surviving the event, having the wherewithal to survive the aftermath is worthwhile.

And having redundant systems is a good idea.

Bests,
Wiley

[Laurentius]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

I'm right there with deejayoh.

They make special lintel cmu's but you can make your own our of regular blocks and a diamond saw blade in a hand grinder and a hammer and chisel.

When I built my stand I used lintel blocks and ran the rebar as a continuous piece: up vertically thru the holes in the blocks on one side of the opening and then across the top and down the other side of he opening, sort of like a large staple. The holes in the block get filled with grout and become a single unit. A couple pieces of rebar and one has an opening that is not going to crack at the corners in the event of an earthquake.

Likewise my top slab has rebar that goes up in the wall blocks then across and down into the blocks forming the outer walls of the stand. Also, if you are thinking ahead, when you lay out the form for the base slab you can mark where the holes in the first layer of block will be placed and bend stubs of rebar which are wired to the slabs rebar and become embedded in the slab pour. These stubs "lock" the walls to the slab when the holes are filled with grout.

Many will say way overkill, but I want my WFO to be standing and useable in the event we ever get "The Big One" the geologists say we are overdue for. It's not that much more work.

Hope this helps,
Wiley

Wiley, my friend. I hope that you are standing if you get "The Big One"! I was here in Japan when the Big One, hit Kobe and to even think of your WFO surviving nature`s fury has anything to do with how if was built is nothing more than Man`s arrogance.

[Wiley]

Re: angle iron in FB Pompeii plans

I'm right there with deejayoh.

They make special lintel cmu's but you can make your own our of regular blocks and a diamond saw blade in a hand grinder and a hammer and chisel.

When I built my stand I used lintel blocks and ran the rebar as a continuous piece: up vertically thru the holes in the blocks on one side of the opening and then across the top and down the other side of he opening, sort of like a large staple. The holes in the block get filled with grout and become a single unit. A couple pieces of rebar and one has an opening that is not going to crack at the corners in the event of an earthquake.

Likewise my top slab has rebar that goes up in the wall blocks then across and down into the blocks forming the outer walls of the stand. Also, if you are thinking ahead, when you lay out the form for the base slab you can mark where the holes in the first layer of block will be placed and bend stubs of rebar which are wired to the slabs rebar and become embedded in the slab pour. These stubs "lock" the walls to the slab when the holes are filled with grout.

Many will say way overkill, but I want my WFO to be standing and useable in the event we ever get "The Big One" the geologists say we are overdue for. It's not that much more work.

Hope this helps,
Wiley