Foundation Thickness

[Les]

Re: Foundation Thickness

Alright Uno - that's pretty much what I had envisioned for a fix. Great minds think alike
Dick, Forget my suggestion of the expansion joint material. After reading it this AM, I realize that I must have had some pretty strong wine

Les...

[Unofornaio]

Re: Foundation Thickness

Here is the basic idea.

[thebadger]

Re: Foundation Thickness

Thanks Uno, Les RT and everyone else.

Not sure if this helps or not but here is a pic. It sounds like I just need to dig around the slab where the oven will go and not the whole patio. The oven will go in the far left hand corner about 6 inches to the right of the post.

Thanks
Dick

[asudavew]

Re: Foundation Thickness

Too bad you don't live here.

Our frost line is like three inches....

[thebadger]

Re: Foundation Thickness

Uno

One other comment: The rebar is only in the back corner of the patio in the Pizza oven area (my contractor said I didn't need it in the whole patio since he used a fiber reinforced concrete) - not sure if that matters or not. The patio thickness should be about 6-8 inches there.

Question
How wide should the footers go? Can the footers just be the post whole width at the corner or do they need to be wider (I see the depth and front to back width you recommend).

Again, Thanks for everyone's help. I thought I hit a wall but it sounds like there is a solution before I build.

Thanks again
Dick

[Unofornaio]

Re: Foundation Thickness

It sounds like I just need to dig around the slab where the oven will go and not the whole patio. The oven will go in the far left hand corner about 6 inches to the right of the post.

Now you've got it.
If if was in the middle of the slab you would have to do nothing. Since it will be on the edge of the slab you need to support that edge at least 18" past the oven on both sides.

[Unofornaio]

Re: Foundation Thickness

(my contractor said I didn't need it in the whole patio since he used a fiber reinforced concrete)

> Here we go....Man this pisses me off.
Fiber is to be used as an ADDITIVE FOR PLASTIC SHRINKAGE ONLY it serves NO function as a structural reinforcement. Many building departments allow this I know, and there is a whole pile of industry info on its usage for flat work but actual application statistics are different. The difference in breaking out a slab with fiber in it and NO rebar and a one with rebar and NO fiber is like night and day there is just NO comparison.

If you have 2 pieces of concrete 2' square and you hit them with a sledge in the center the one with fiber is going to break up in to larger separate pieces the one with rebar is going to crack but still retain its shape. So if you have rebar in the patio and it tries to heave at the joints its not going to go anywhere because the rebar is holding it in place. The fiber slab will come up exactly like the sidewalks you have undoubtedly tripped over once or twice while living in that area. I grew up in Pittsburgh, PA.

The day they allow it for footings in place of rebar or its is approved for bridge decking, structural walls, parking garages, etc. has not come (and probably never will). This should make it clear that although fiber works good to hold the mix ingredients together its does not a structural element.

Question
How wide should the footers go? Can the footers just be the post whole width at the corner or do they need to be wider (I see the depth and front to back width you recommend).

> I'm not sure what you are saying here. The footings at or around 10" wide just fine.

Now you know why his bid was cheaper than all the rest..

[thebadger]

Re: Foundation Thickness

Uno,

Actually his bid was in line with the other 3 I got. (My wife wonders why I ask the same question to different people - you never know who to believe.) I guess I'm stuck with that I have... Hopefully it won't fall down the hill.

Regarding my question.

I guess what I need to do is make the footers 10" "under" the slab x 30" deep by the lenght of the oven +18 inches ~ 8 feet on each of the two sides. WOW that seems like a lot of concrete.

Guess I was hoping for an easy option

Let me know if you or anyone thinks of anything else. I've been obsessing about the oven since April and I don't want anything to keep me from building it.

Thanks
Dick

[Unofornaio]

Re: Foundation Thickness

Hopefully it won't fall down the hill.
>its not

I guess what I need to do is make the footers 10" "under" the slab x 30" deep by the lenght of the oven +18 inches ~ 8 feet on each of the two sides. WOW that seems like a lot of concrete.
wait..NO the footing will be under the oven back wall extending 18" past so your total footing if you have a 5' wide base will be 8' TOTAL..you could cut it down to just the width of the actual oven and it should be fine.

Guess I was hoping for an easy option
> doesn't get much easier than this one..

[asudavew]

Re: Foundation Thickness

I built mine on 3.5 inch deep existing patio slab..........

[thebadger]

Re: Foundation Thickness

Uno,

Thanks. I outlined the area for the foundation on the patio and realized it takes up a lot more room than I thought (bad space planning on my part)

I thought of two options:
Option 1) The easiest would be to create a new slab and have it butt up to the existing patio. I could build this with "heave" in mind so there wouldn't be any problems. The only issue is I don't want to build too close to my neighbors house/property line.

Option 2) Create a partial slab and tie it into the existing patio. Half of the oven would be on the new slab (2-3 feet) and half would be on the existing patio (2-3 feet).

I guess my question is - Is Option 2 viable without worring about soil heave/issues with having the oven on "two different" foundations - assuming I dig the new partial foundation down to the frost line etc. The reason I like this option is I don't have to go too far into the yard and the oven would be under my pergola (see earlier pic) a little.

Any thoughts, suggestions, how to's or ideas would be apprecaited.

Again, thanks for everyones help.
Dick
Side note - I am planning a small cabinet/counter top work area to the right of the oven but I'll probably keep this separate and wont "tie" it in to the oven.

[Unofornaio]

Re: Foundation Thickness

Option 2) Create a partial slab and tie it into the existing patio. Half of the oven would be on the new slab (2-3 feet) and half would be on the existing patio (2-3 feet).

I guess my question is - Is Option 2 viable without worring about soil heave/issues with having the oven on "two different" foundations?

> yes certainly. But you must put a footing under the old as we discussed before where the 2 meet. In addition you must dowel into the existing slab to connect the 2 together. If you make the new slab 6", put the proper footing on its perimeter and dowel into the old slab you can probably get away with a smaller footing where the 2 slabs meet.

So your new footing would be in the shape of a U all at the proper depth and where this meets the old slab you would have a footing stretching from side to side running under the new and old sections. all of the old and new MUST be tied into each other via rebar. When you dowel in the holes should go back ideally 1' but some where in the neighborhood should be ok. Since that concrete is relatively new it shouldn't be that bad you will need a hammer drill to accomplish this.

[thebadger]

Re: Foundation Thickness

Uno,

Once again thanks. I'll let you know what we end up doing and show pics of the progress. I might be able to do the foundation this year but the boss says the oven has to wait until next year.

Thanks!!!!
Dick