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Brick orientation for the first course of bricks

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  • #16
    I used option 2 with an occasional extra helping of sand. I know the Calcium Aluminate is supposed to be way better for high temperatures, but from what I have read if you minimize/eliminate internal gaps Portland will do fine.
    Last edited by JRPizza; 02-21-2016, 07:29 PM. Reason: Wrote down the wrong option
    My build thread
    http://www.fornobravo.com/community/...h-corner-build

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    • #17
      I used option 2 the home brew mix. It is nice to work with. I recommend finding the finest sand you can. The stuff I had was like sugar. It was from quick Crete and was something like industrial fine sand. It was screened and kiln dried so it was all the same size grit. I don't think you can go wrong with that set up.

      Randy
      Last edited by RandyJ; 02-22-2016, 02:04 PM.

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      • #18
        If you use option three you will have to make extremely small batches because lime acts as an accelerant in conjunction with calcium aluminate cement.This results in a very short working time, even without the lime the mix is very temperature dependant. You must also clean out the barrow or mixing tub and any tools used as any residual mix will accelerate the next batch.
        I have pointed this out years ago but the plans have not been changed. Obviously whoever provided this information has not tried it in the field. Ok if you just remove the lime in the recipe.
        Last edited by david s; 02-21-2016, 07:19 PM.
        Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by david s View Post
          If you use option three you will have to make extremely small batches because lime acts as an accelerant in conjunction with calcium aluminate cement.This results in a very short working time, even without the lime the mix is very temperature dependant. You must also clean out the barrow or mixing tub and any tools used as any residual mix will accelerate the next batch.
          I have pointed this out years ago but the plans have not been changed. Obviously whoever provided this information has not tried it in the field. Ok if you just remove the lime in the recipe.

          Thank you very much. I'm glad I posted this question now. When I posted this question I thought there would be folks who had success stories with the mortar. Anyway, good to know & thanks for the info.
          Last edited by JABF99; 02-21-2016, 08:46 PM.

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          • #20
            Do any of you mix a mortar (not a refractory) homebrew for the enclosure bricks, or is that overkill?

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            • #21
              It's been years, but I used to tend brick for my dad and my uncle. If they could not find the mortar mix that they wanted, we would make it for small projects. (I did not know this then) Most manufactures of modern mortar mixes use the "equivalent" of hydrated lime + some proprietary additives. Type-N mortar cement is 50% hydrated lime and 50% Portland "cement". Add 1 part of that mix to 3 parts sand and you have type N "mortar". If you have just a few bricks to lay, and have some portland and lime left over from the build, it may be worthwhile. If not, it may be more cost effective to just buy the masonry cement. But, the old folks swore by the origional formula .
              Joe Watson " A year from now, you will wish that you had started today" My Build Album / My Build

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              • #22
                Portland, Lime Sand is about as easy as it gets, but seriously, you can buy a 70 pound bag of Type N masonry cement for 6 bucks, I don't know how you could mix portland and lime for less than that. You might need three bags total depending on how much of the exterior is brick. Keep asking questions, cause your way overthinking this build and you will save a lot of time and money if you ask first.
                The cost of living continues to skyrocket, and yet it remains a popular choice.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by dakzaag View Post
                  Portland, Lime Sand is about as easy as it gets, but seriously, you can buy a 70 pound bag of Type N masonry cement for 6 bucks, I don't know how you could mix portland and lime for less than that. You might need three bags total depending on how much of the exterior is brick. Keep asking questions, cause your way overthinking this build and you will save a lot of time and money if you ask first.

                  Thanks for the info. I appreciate everyone's patience with my questions. I'd rather ask questions up front like this, rather than jump in and try to build the oven, and later regret that I did not ask my questions and consequently did something really stupid. I've tackled a lot of DIY projects over the years and my way is to ask a lot of questions, and then try to have a sound detailed plan before I begin the project. Especially with a project like a WFO where there are a lot of opportunities to tailor the project to my needs.

                  I started with the foundation. I live in the north with a lot of clay. Initially I was just going to put a slab in. But now after asking some questions, I am going to put footings in below the frost line. I wasn't sure at first about the size of oven to build. People here helped me decide on the 42" oven (I think that will be a much better size for me, than my original plan to do a 36" oven). The plans give various options regarding bricks, mortar, saw type to use, and even the orientation of the first row of the dome bricks. It sure helped running all of this by folks here and then make an informed decision on what choices to make. LOL, my wife and kids tease me about how detail-oriented I am about stuff. But that's just how I'm wired. Others can just jump in and have a success with DIY stuff. But for me it's just a recipe for failure when I try to just "wing it" with a project. Thanks for all of the help (to everyone here, I am grateful).

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                  • #24
                    The old saying "the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask" applies to a lot of things. building a WFO is certainly one of them. The good news is a lot of people have built these in so many different ways and with very diverse materials and when all is said and done, the pizza is awesome no matter how it was built. Keep posting and soon enough you will have an oven ready to go.
                    The cost of living continues to skyrocket, and yet it remains a popular choice.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by david s View Post

                      Contrary to popular belief that tight joints will create a stronger oven, actually the reverse is true. According to Daniel Rhodes in his book "Kilns design construction and operation" , widely considered the kiln builders bible, he states

                      "In kiln building it is much better to have a loose structure than a tight one. For this reason the amateur may have a slight advantage over the professional mason, because his bricklaying is apt to be somewhat loose and not tightly locked together. I have seen kilns made by professional bricklayers which in use suffered severe cracking and swelling due to the overly tight and precise workmanship and the lack of expansion joints."

                      Now, we're not building kilns which sustain double the temperature of our ovens, but the same principles apply. In fact the problem with rapid oven heat up and expansion is more of a problem for the refractory with an oven than a kiln. Due to the extremely rapid heat rise from ambient temperature, because most oven owners want to get that heat into the oven as quickly as possible, the refractory actually heats up and expands far more unevenly than a kiln which is loaded with wares and fired to increases far slower, allowing a far more even expansion throughout the kiln.
                      Hi,

                      I'm about to start building my oven and planned on cutting the bricks at angles based on a dome calculator document I found within this forum. I also attached it for reference.
                      Are you saying here that I shouldn't cut tilt or side angles and should just do regular half bricks instead?
                      Attached Files

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                      • #26
                        just my .02$ but don't bother with cutting the brick in to wedges. Just cut the bevel on the sides as needed as you get to the higher courses. It is not necessary and takes a lot more bricks and time.

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