What's the Dough secret?

[PlanoPhil]

Re: What's the Dough secret?

Dino

75% Really! Do you have to stretch your dough or just pour it out on your peel and stop it when it runs out to the edge.

BTW - Love your build. I dreamed of doing my own but I'm way too lazy so I bought a Casa 90.

Drink Mo Wine!

Phil

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: What's the Dough secret?

Thanks Phil, you're too funny. Enjoy your Casa90 (and some wine )
Happy 4th,
Cheers, Dino

[TropicalCoasting]

Re: What's the Dough secret?

My dough is just flour water (tank) salt and dried yeast and EVOO in the bowl .
I leave it in the fridge overnight I find it works well for 2 days and gets too sloppy to work after 3 ,I then have to add heaps of flour to stop it slopping about and it gets tough and tastes of flour.
Ive had lots of pizzas in Italy, including the supposed home of the original margherita and I am very happy with the taste I get, some days its almost a 10 out of 10 other days it drops to a 7.
Seems to depend on the what's happening in the universe because the recipe never changes.

Its never less than VVgood though

[Brick Oven Bob]

Re: What's the Dough secret?

I started making bread in the early 1990's using "Beard on Bread" by legendary chef, James Beard. All dough making I do today can be traced back to the knowledge I gained from that book.

I have a wood fired oven (Modena 120) mounted on a trailer that I take to festivals, concerts, nonprofit events, catering, etc. In 2011, we made literally thousands of pizzas. I have a basic - simple - "recipe" I follow. I have tried different liquids, I have tried different flours and I have tried different yeast brands (including cultures), but I always come back to my tried and true "recipe".

When I started making bread years ago, I took measurements seriously. Today, I know that I can almost toss the different ingredients into a bowl and have a nice loaf of bread or pizza dough ball appear at the end of my mixing that will taste fine. I would encourage you to not take the weights and exact quantities so seriously (except for salt). Relax and enjoy the process. I love making dough for pizza and breads.

2 cups water - not hot, warm is fine if you plan on making bread or pizza the same day. Cold will even work, it just takes a bit longer. In fact, if you are planning on letting the dough sit in the refrigerator overnight (a must for pizza dough), you need to control the yeast by using cool water, otherwise your dough will blow up like it has a mind of its own and has decided to take over your kitchen.

1 TABLESPOON kosher salt. Yes, I know. You won't see many recipes with this much salt, but trial and error has taught me that salt = flavor in bread and especially pizza dough. I'm not sure when I began using kosher salt, but I will not use table salt in my doughs. With salt, you need to take measurements seriously. There is a fine line between too much and too little. Too much salt yields an uneatable bread. Too little, a bland and tasteless waste of effort.

Yeast - 1 pkg if you are making pizza dough and 2 pkg if making bread (though I have used 2 pkg for pizza too).

Flour - I honestly don't know exactly how much flour I use, there are many factors that will come into play. Use enough flour to make a dough ball that you can work with. At this point, you do need to get a bit more serious about your technique. You can add more flour, but can't take it away. I like to pause around the time the dough begins to have some body. Give it 5 minutes or even longer to let the water penetrate into the flour. If you get too much flour into the dough ball, the end result will be a tougher product. Always remember, too much liquid is better than too much flour (more flour can always be added a little at a time). You can use the 00 flour if you have it, but I think you'll find that any bread flour - or even AP will work for you as well. One positive of the Cupoto 00 is it tends to be a lower rise flour. Good for pizza, but not so much for bread (but I have used it successfully in bread, you may have to adjust the yeast and rise times though). Wetter is better as long as you can work the dough (I don't have time to calculate %'s but would estimate to be in the 60% range, maybe a bit higher) and get it transferred to your cooking surface (if using your home oven, get a cast iron pizza pan and crank your oven up as hot as it will go).

Olive Oil - you can use it or leave it out. Again, I am not sure how much I use, less than 1/4 cup maybe as little as 1/8 cup. This will tend to give your crust a bit of chewiness, which is nice depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

This "recipe" will yield 3 or so 14" thin pizzas. If you need more than that, just double everything (I triple it when making for events and make multiple batches - triple is about all you can handle when making by hand).

So, I would encourage you to relax and have fun. Dough making is more about technique than exact measurements (except where noted). Best of luck, I know you can do it!

Regarding storage of dough, I have found that damp cloth over the dough will keep the skin from forming. Dough will usually keep in the refrigerator for 4 - 5 days. You can tell by its color if it is still good. A vibrant color that you get when you first make it indicates a good healthy dough ball. A greyish color is a dough ball that is ready for the trash.

I really appreciate all of your posts. There is something to learn from each one.

[heliman]

Re: What's the Dough secret?

Thanks for this useful info Bob.

Regarding measurements - from a consistency point of view I always measure ingredients for both pizza and bread so I am able to repeat it closely the next time. I do make adjustments thereafter on "feel" but not greatly so.

It sounds like you can get your weights near enough to not warrant using a scale which is very handy....

[Brick Oven Bob]

Re: What's the Dough secret?

I don't want to leave the impression that I don't measure at all. I just measure only what is important to do so. When I first started testing dough for pizza, I looked here and other places on the internet for recipes and was very legalistic about all measurements, weights and percentages. I nearly drove myself crazy - not to mention that I had some failures that I couldn't identify reason for as I had completely followed "the rules". Legalism is death. Freedom is life. Once I relaxed and cut myself some slack, I realized that dough making could be a lot of fun and still turn out a great end product.

The "recipe" I gave never fails me and I make it on site (outside) the day before each of our events (@ 40 in 2011). It's easy - from the standpoint that I don't have to keep up with and follow some recipe. It is all in my head. It's not so easy in that I mix it entirely by hand. My work conditions are perfectly imperfect. Rain, heat, cold, humidity, wind. All the elements come into play and yet batch after batch is consistent - BUT then the technique of building the pie comes into play doesn't it?

This "easy" is why I responded in this thread of "What's the Dough secret?" I know the "secret". The secret is to relax and have fun. I'm not saying that we shouldn't take our art seriously. I take it very serious. But I love it enough to let it become what it will become. My pizza is of a New York style crossed with the Neopolitian style. I long ago lost track of how many times I heard, "This is the best pizza I've ever eaten."

What I like about you and others on this site, is that you want to do things "right" and you do what you do out of love and passion. It isn't about money. I recognize in my business that I do have to be profitable. But when that customer take his first bite, his eyes roll back in his head and I hear this groan of satisfaction from the him...I know I've been successful.

I want MORE people, not less, doing what I do. To me, it seems that a greater understanding across the board can do nothing but help us all. I am not competing with you, I am your Brother-in-Dough!

So I say, keep up the great work and bring the discussions on. Get in the kitchen and make up a batch of dough then tell me what you did and why it did or didn't work. I'm delighted to learn anything that anyone can teach me and hope to be able to share some tips that I have learned over the years too.