Advice Needed, Fireplace vs. Oven

[markwhamlin]

We are building a beautiful covered outdoor kitchen. While we want an oven for baking, the warmth and charm of a fireplace would be very beneficial. Any one have any thoughts on how to get both out of the same unit?

[dmun]

Re: Advice Needed, Fireplace vs. Oven

This is a very common question. I am building both near each other, with the fireplace on the inside, and the oven on the outside, the two flues will converge into a single two flue chimney.

I've seen some talk of placing the fireplace below the oven, where the wood storage area is normally located, but this creates the problem of having the fireplace at foot level in a work area, when you would really want it in a seating area nearby.

I think the best plan is to have them separate, in different areas of the backyard. The Rumford.com site has a large area about outdoor fireplaces:

http://rumford.com/outdoor.html

There seems to be a difficulty with outdoor fireplaces in general: you don't have the differential between warm inside and cool outside that creates a normal draft condition. In addtition, normally occuring downdrafts can smoke out your seating area. I'd do a careful study of normal airflow with incense sticks before making any final decisions.

[Xabia Jim]

Re: Advice Needed, Fireplace vs. Oven

I've got to agree with dmum. If you can, have two different units whether into the same chimney or separate chimneys. They are quite different structures and unless you had a removable wall to the oven you will not get the desired effect. (Our woodstove has glass in the door and that's okay for inside.)

We have a separate outside hearth for grilling and rices, yet to be used. It would serve as an open fireplace too but since it is at counter height I don't think you get the same "feel" as a ground fire. I've also seen different temporary fireplaces used and they work fine if you have the space.

We did design an outdoor fireplace into our covered naya and it actually works very well. Yes, if it's windy you will have smoking problems but that can even happen with indoor fireplaces when it's windy. When the weather is cool it's fantastic to sit outside with a fire.....find a way to do it!

I think sitting around a fire is a primeval instinct! No two fires are ever the same.

[docsev]

Re: Advice Needed, Fireplace vs. Oven

OK, I am COMPLETELY new to this forum and, first, must say I love all of the info in it.

I am in the process of figuring out IF I want to go through the expense of putting an oven in my back yard (I like to cook but have no DIY skill) so will have to rely on paying someone else to build the thing. One proposition by a local (Milwaukee, WI) landscaper was to build a combination of pizza oven with a fireplace, somehow, incorporated into the same structure.

Acknowledging the precautionary words in this thread, is there any structural reason why a firepit couldn't be placed beneath the platform holding the oven -- i.e. heat, etc? Then use a "firedoor" or removable barrier along the "front" where one would access the oven.

I believe that the thinking is, if we have to excavate down below the frost line anyway, why not incorporate a recessed firepit into the plan.

(BTW, the landscaper has never built one of these, either but he says he has a great mason -- and I have steered him to this forum).

[specialmerac]

Re: Advice Needed, Fireplace vs. Oven

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[Archena]

Re: Advice Needed, Fireplace vs. Oven

Fire Rock Manufacturing, Inc. :: FIRE ROCK MASONRY FIREPLACES AND OUTDOOR FIREPLACES

Found this - it's pre-engineered so you don't have to worry about getting the firebox right. I'm seriously drooling here...

[adman2u]

Re: Advice Needed, Fireplace vs. Oven

The first thing I built - outdoor fireplace in 2005 Have nearly completed oven/smoker/tandori combo unit. I have zero experience. I decided the height by adding a block to the top and walking backwards to the far edge of my patio. When I could no longer see my neighbors I was as high as I needed to go = 7'.6". I made the firebox deeper than the examples I found in Sunset book. I also made the chimney very big using bricks not a flue. The unit backs to the prevailing wind and once heated it takes a wind or gust more than 15mph to smoke. I have given up some heat by doing this but hey - I'm in Florida! Strongly consider lighting on your units. I have put in recessed rope lighting its fantastic even when there is no fire.

I have cooked & smoked in my fireplace by hanging meat down the chimney I then blocked off the front with cement blocks. I also made string turkey one Thanksgiving. This came from an old book - bird is hung by a string and the littlest kid sits there and keeps it spinning like a verticle rotissary(17 minutes for me) . It all worked but it took a ton of wood. I have also used the fireplace as a charcoal grill. freplace is big so it adapts well. A cool thing is - Shrimps wrapped in bacon on a skewer taped on a stick - our version of an up-scale weiner roast. - friends enjoy it.

My outdoor fireplace is raised up with a cantelevered hearth. We put a dining table near it for dinners. Wine and friends make it well worth the work. Also I spent about $1500 US it easily adds $4000 to my property value.

New unit will be done soon. It could serve as a fireplace but not very well. No more slinging cement blocks and sticking my face in a hot chimney to cook. Yesterday I smoked a pork butt for 9 hours see pictures in gallery adman2u - Its all good I am very glad I just went ahead and did it- No experience required. Beware the masonry addiction...

[krosskraft]

Re: Advice Needed, Fireplace vs. Oven

We have only a wood-fired oven outside, but the way it is situated, we have a slightly elevated deck on which the dining table and chairs sit, so that makes the oven eye-level when seated on the deck. When cooking in the "kitchen" part of the outdoors, the oven is the correct height.

Is there any way you could lower you oven area so that it would be the perfect height for seated guests as a fireplace? Just a thought.

[adman2u]

Re: Advice Needed, Fireplace vs. Oven

I don't understand your question - My fireplace has seating on the hearth and the unit I'm working on now shown in photo gallery is not my fireplace - It would work as a small one but I built the real deal a few years ago. The new unit has a top like a table where the flue comes out. This serves as tandori grill or base of smoker. The other side or back is the oven area / firebox see pic in gallery.

[70chevelle]

Re: Advice Needed, Fireplace vs. Oven

My combo unit is about 99% finished. (I still have some aesthetic work to do). The fireplace and oven both have worked excellent for me. I get a little smoke out the front of the fireplace until the fire is burning well, but it doesn't get to the seating area. A few of the benefits I've recognized.

1) It's compact. If you have the space for both, build them seperate if you want, but this worked out very well for me.

2) It's more cost effective. You'll only spend a few more dollars to build them together, where you'll likely almost double the cost to build them seperately

3) I can start a fire after making pizza's by shoveling the ashes right below into the fireplace. It's actually pretty cool, as it looks like I just lit a gas fireplace. The embers will glow for about 5 or 10 minutes, and then all of a sudden the wood/kindling will burst into flames.

It's all in what you want to do and what your acceptance level is. My previous fireplace was open of 4 sides, produced a minimal amount of heat and blew smoke in everyones face, depending on which way the wind blew. I've had some smoke out the front, until the fire gets going, but no smoke in my nor any of my guests faces. It heats very nicely. It took a little ingenuity to ensure it works as it does, and there isn't a lot of information on doing it this way, so again there is some inherent risk. Heres a pic and link.



http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f21/...tory-4547.html

[adman2u]

Re: Advice Needed, Fireplace vs. Oven

I built my fireplace about four years ago. It backs up to prevailing wind. I made the firebox about 8" deeper than guidlines I found in sunset book. I also made the chimney really big like about 30 X 18. THe firebox opening is 42 inches wide. The unit is about 7.5 feet high so not a lot of smoke clearance. It rarely smokes us out and almost never once its hot. I need about a 15mph wind to cause any smoking. BUT I'm in FL so heating is not an issue 90% of the time. In fact for dinner parties in fall I lite it at the last minute so masonry doesn't heat up and radiate.