bbq

[blade]

Super forum.
Please help me with ideas and maybe with doc/photo to build a brick or concrete outdoor barbeque.
Thank you.

PS: I am a big fan of home made bread !

[james]

Re: bbq

Is anbody going to bite on this one? I am interested wood and charcoal grills, and would enjoy hearing more about this. I have at least one more outdoor kitchen in me (probably coming up soon), and I am seriously considering an old-fashioned masonry grill/BBQ.

Any ideas?
James

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: bbq

When I went to Italy last year we stayed in a house that had this oven with a grilling area next to it. I thought it was an excellent design, shovel coals out of the oven and grill away.

The brick enclosure of the grilling area really bounced the heat back on the grilling meat!

Drake

[james]

Re: bbq

Drake,

That's our oven! It's a model our producer makes that we don't sell in the states. Cool.

Here's something similar from France.

I'm still wondering about the best way to build it and vent it.
James

[CanuckJim]

Re: bbq

James,

I'd build a simple box, a bit wider and deeper than the largest grill I'd be using. It looks like the Italian version has a straight back. I'd angle it inward a bit, a la Rumford, then build a standard flue tile chimney using 6" tile. Should work just fine.

Jim

[james]

Re: bbq

I feel as though I have a good intuitive feeling for how a brick oven cooks, how the fire works, etc., but I'm not as clear on the grill.

Over the years I've owned Weber kettles, various propane grills with lava rocks and steel "flavor bars" and I've done my share of cooking in concrete grills using either Euro charcoal or wood. But I am trying to visualize how the heat works, and how the "best" wood/charcoal grill works.

What is the true heat source? The coals, or the refractory material that makes up the grill? There are Italian grills that stack up a wood fire in a metal grill in the back of the BBQ, and let the coals fall down -- which are the pulled forward. Does the heat in the back of the grill help cook? Why are Weber grill's domed, but Australian grills are open. Etc.

Confused in grill-land.

James

[CanuckJim]

Re: bbq

James,

I was thinking along the lines of using coals from the oven to fuel the grill area. Of course, you could build a fire in the grill, then rake the coals around for an even floor. To my mind, the heat source is really not the refractory material, but the coals themselves. That's why I suggested leaning the bricks on the back inward, so you'd get reflective heat as well. When I've done things like this, that's always been the plan.

Jim

[christo]

Re: bbq

That is exactly what I was planning on doing with the grill that I plan to put in to my outdoor kitchen. But then I wondered if it was actually useful in practice.

My question is - and I guess its a combination wood/fire managment and personal expereience question.

When the people out there that have ovens are cooking -

Do you normally have a lot of coals that could be used in a grill once the temperature is up in the oven?

And --- Do those that use their ovens see many times when they would like to be grilling and making pizzas at the same time?

I can see myself grilling up a few chicken breasts for the pizzas.

If the answer to either of those is no - I may opt for a gas grill......

Thanks Christo.

[james]

Re: bbq

Cristo,
Good question. It will be interesting to hear what folks are doing.

Here are a couple of photos of the more traditional Mediterranean grill. The good ones are made from refractory material around the grill, with concrete vents and stands. Every store, from the supermarket to the garden center carries these, and there are very (very) few propane grills to be found, and no kettle grills.

The first photo shows the design where you burn wood in a grate in the back, and use the coals. You see that design in restaurants as well.

Any thoughts from our Aussie grill owners?

James

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: bbq

Drake,

That's our oven! It's a model our producer makes that we don't sell in the states. Cool.

May be interesting to note that the oven in that picure was once one giant custom oven. They had recently knocked out the old oven, installed a smaller precast one on the right, made the grill section on the left and they shared the old vent system from the larger oven.

Drake

[Xabia Jim]

Re: bbq

On grilling....I agree with CJ....you're using the fire or coals to cook, not the heated masonry. Gas, coals, or wood fire....some reflected heat in the BBQ but that direct energy is the main cooker with the grill.

On moving coals, sure take them out of the oven and move to the grill area....just like turning on a gas grill.....add more wood if you like to keep going. It would be nice to have a large enough grill to have a fire on one side and be grilling on coals on the other.

We have moved the oven coals to start a fire in the outside fireplace too!

I have seen a neat commercial operation that was cooking meats over a bed of coals but it had wood burning in a flat plate and basket gizmo over the grill that was about 8 inches above the cooking meats. I think it was a production thing where they were grilling and making new coals at the same time. (The plate would possible be cooking the meat from above too)

Vertical grills? At least the grease flare ups are kept to a minimum

[james]

Re: bbq

Hey X-Jim,

Agreed. It's fun moving coals around -- for grilling and lighting your outdoor fireplace. In my case, it gets some raised eyebrows from the family (walking around with a pail of burning embers).

Here is a link to a restaurant in Florence with a wood-burning grill. They burn the wood in the back, and pull the coals forward.

http://www.fornobravo.com/pizza_oven...ce-grill1.html

Right now, I am wrestling with an inexpensive steel grill and Mediterranean charcoal. The wind blows through the thin steel walls, and seems to cool the coals down almost immediately. At minimum, a thicker masonry grill will protect the coals and let them burn longer.

James

[Hendo]

Re: bbq

Any thoughts from our Aussie grill owners?

Well since no-one else has taken this up, most barbecue equipment sold here is of the bottled gas variety, with wheels and four or so burners like the one shown below. They have become quite lavish of late, with optional rotisseries, gas hobs, cupboards below, etc. Weber 'kettles' are also popular, but often used more for roasting. Many people who enjoy outdoor cooking have both a gas barbecue and a Weber in their back yard.

Over the years, I have enjoyed cooking on my Weber, but have never had a decent gas-fired grill, so my new outdoor kitchen will incorporate one of these next to the brick oven. I've been in two minds over this, as our grilling to date has been done on a ground-level cast iron grill & hotplate, using fallen timber from our Eucalypt trees. Most gas-owners (everyone I know!) have thought me crazy for persisting with wood, but the taste of the smoke, especially in lamb chops, is stunning! It will be sorely missed (it had to make way for the oven).

I'm also posting a couple of photo's of grills which we saw/used in Italy last year - the owner of a pensione in Lucca in front of a neat little kitchen grill he uses regularly (it draws very well, judging by the lack of soot stain on the facing brickwork) - and an outdoor one near Ulignano which we cooked on reasonably successfully, although we really couldn't get the coals hot enough. Perhaps the Euro charcoal, James? Or perhaps the concrete base simply sucked a lot of the heat out of the fire. I've not seen either of these styles here to date, and I doubt that there would be any at all built inside a house.

Cheers, Paul.

[Bacterium]

Re: bbq

My brother has built what he calls his "hot box" which is a steel box lined (sides and bottom) with fire brick - held in place by metal straps here and there.
The top is obviously open where he puts his grill (can vary position higher or lower) and he uses his own charcoal (thats quite fun to help him make). Whatever he uses - charcoal or just plain timber you can cook more with less fuel. Yet you still get some smoke for "charcoal" style of cooking

I've thought about maybe something like his hot box and putting it to the side of my oven.....and like has already been said, using coals from the oven and into the box once they are the right

yes you can't beat lamb or quail cooked like this.......

for all you Aussies..... do you like the Sam Kekovich "Lamb Ads"...they are pearlers

[Xabia Jim]

Re: bbq

One of the things I've noticed with the masonary bbq's is that they all seem to have a mechanism to allow you to have the grill at different heights.

If you do a masonry one you can stagger firebricks to create a shelf on each side for your grill. I've also seen pieces of angle iron or channel used for this purpose. And finally, I've also seen a variety of overhead roller systems that raised and lowered a grill on hanging chains.

I used to roast whole lamb legs in mine and the ability to sear it down low over the open fire/coals, but then reposition the grill high to slow cook worked very well. It would have been great to have a spit!

James, I've seen whole mechanism's in europe that would slide into a masonry space...walls, grill, ash tray....you might want to find a couple of sizes for FB. As you say, these are everywhere!