Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

[Rocko Bonaparte]

We've had this house for nearly 2.5 years now, and sufficiently miss the pizza oven that we're ready to start on a new one. We're hoping to make this look a little bit better. However, the scheme for it keeps changing so much that I'm hoping the Internet might actually give me a hand.

One thing between my wife and myself constantly changing our own minds on it--is that I think we settled on one area of the back yard that's facing towards the road:

(sending a link to imgur because the images are pretty big)
http://i.imgur.com/NH8EKSQ.jpg

We are thinking of putting a back to it so that it would help keep the road noise down.

As you can see, there's some old pad there that curves around. We originally were thinking of tearing it out, but we've both decided to keep it and incorporate it into everything. We would ultimately resurface it though.

For a sense of scale, the distance between posts is roughly 8 feet, and the fence is 4 feet high.

Probably the cheapest thing we could try to do is build the whole outdoor kitchen around the circle of that pad, but I was thinking of putting in a rectangular pad right up to the fence, with it taking out part of the fence. I think that eventually we could put a roof over it if we desired. I'm in Austin so we don't really need an enclosure for all-year use; just to shield against sun and rain.

My own scheme is to have a 48" pizza oven (36" was not enough), a sink, and some other cooking thing like grill/range/no idea.

One concern we had about building so far back is if we have to worry about the trees. First, if we dig down, we'll probably hit a root, and trigger oak suckers. I guess they won't press through concrete, but I also don't want to be constantly trimming them from around the edges of the slab. The other is I don't want embers to do anything to the trees. Is that really a problem?

Bonus points for figuring out a use for the pavers. The damn things were everywhere and were raising the ground the line of our foundation everywhere. I still dig up pavers where dirt had moved in over them. We're thinking on the other side of setting them up for some biergarten or something.

[edsiajb]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

I've looked at this photo a couple of times and I like the circular pad. If it were mine I would keep the pad, install the pavers on top of the concrete (rather than refinish), build a fireplace back by the fence (which would help block noise) and build the oven off the circle beside the fireplace. You could also incorporate a cabinet/counter going the other direction and achieve a really neat, integrated appearance. And all of that could be covered later if desired.

[Rocko Bonaparte]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

Thanks edsiajb.

I was meaning to write back for a few days, but it was probably better I waited. I had thought you had suggested building around the circle, as in a circular outdoor kitchen. I was trying to figure out how I could keep that round shape while still having cabinets. Then I was going to ask about creating circular pavilions and blablabla. It's good I got to reread.

How would I keep the pad while building off of it? The current idea I have been considering is keeping the concrete from the pad, but I would extend a rectangular pad off it towards the fence so I could build the kitchen. Is that what you were thinking?

Regardless, if it matters, the circular pad has a rough diameter of 15 feet. I think it would drain towards the fence, so I would have to adjust for that. However, I suppose extending the pad isn't too much of a fuss if I can dig down deep enough--without disturbing the oaks--to link up the pads with some rebar. If I remember, I'd have to link the slabs if I wanted them to share a structure without cracking it from disjoint settling.

[deejayoh]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

Going from 36" to 48" is a big leap. That is a LOT more surface area and volume. Something like 70% larger! You might think about a 42"

[Rocko Bonaparte]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

My wife used to basically set the 36" on fire and during bakes I would have it completely full. A 36" is what I should probably have, but when it is pizza oven day, it is pizza oven day. Still, before we buy the stuff, I was going to draw out a 36, 42, and a 48 inch circle just to sink it all in.

I mean, I already have the 20 quart Hobart . . .

[Rocko Bonaparte]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

The current scheme is to square out the far end of the pad there, and make a rounded walkway to it from the near-left side. That is the direction towards the house. This would keep some curves to that pad while giving me something regular around which I could ultimately build. We have an idea over using the pavers for something like a biergarten in the area behind where I was standing to take the picture.

I can make something like a 16x10 area in which I could build an oven. How do people incorporate building an enclosure into their kitchens? I assume I should actually make a slightly larger slab if I want to reserve the option of having a structure. I'm also assuming a 16x10 area is easy enough to put a roof over some day.

[mrchipster]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

The current scheme is to square out the far end of the pad there, and make a rounded walkway to it from the near-left side. That is the direction towards the house. This would keep some curves to that pad while giving me something regular around which I could ultimately build. We have an idea over using the pavers for something like a biergarten in the area behind where I was standing to take the picture.

I can make something like a 16x10 area in which I could build an oven. How do people incorporate building an enclosure into their kitchens? I assume I should actually make a slightly larger slab if I want to reserve the option of having a structure. I'm also assuming a 16x10 area is easy enough to put a roof over some day.

I like your thought process on the build but have a single concern, and a comment. Did you check with the local building code to see if you can build close to the fence as it is most likely your lot line.

Here in MN I need a 5 ft setback from my rear lot line 6 ft on side lot and 12 ft from road, for any permanent structure.

The comment I have is, I have a 42 inch and could not keep up with the pace that a 48 inch oven has capacity for. I can get three Pizzas in the oven at the same time but cannot imagine handling 4 or 5 pies at a single moment without a team of people feeding it and building pies.

[Rocko Bonaparte]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

I like your thought process on the build but have a single concern, and a comment. Did you check with the local building code to see if you can build close to the fence as it is most likely your lot line.

Here in MN I need a 5 ft setback from my rear lot line 6 ft on side lot and 12 ft from road, for any permanent structure.

I'm on county rules here for that, and they're very lax. The other side of that fence is still my property, so if it ever becomes a problem later, I can set the fence further back. It needs replacing anyways.

The comment I have is, I have a 42 inch and could not keep up with the pace that a 48 inch oven has capacity for. I can get three Pizzas in the oven at the same time but cannot imagine handling 4 or 5 pies at a single moment without a team of people feeding it and building pies.

Okay you guys are definitely scaring me. However, it's not so much for pizzas but for all the other crap I end up putting into it once it gets to 400F and lower.

[Greenman]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

The other consideration with these fire breathers is that the bigger they get the more wood they consume. There is a happy medium out there, just a matter of finding yours.

[mrchipster]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

I'm on county rules here for that, and they're very lax. The other side of that fence is still my property, so if it ever becomes a problem later, I can set the fence further back. It needs replacing anyways.


Okay you guys are definitely scaring me. However, it's not so much for pizzas but for all the other crap I end up putting into it once it gets to 400F and lower.

Two years ago when my daughter got married we hosted the rehearsal dinner here at the house. We cooked a Peruvian chicken dish for 45 people, oven temp at the start of cooking was about 475 F, the pans just barely fit into the oven. And in fact they needed to go in in a specific way just to fit. But no one went home hungry. Plenty to feed the large group. This is a 42 inch. I had done the bread just prior to putting in the chicken.

[Rocko Bonaparte]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

Can you roughly quantify how much wood you're feeding into a 42-inch oven? I'm trying to compare that to the 36" cob-brick-hybrid I was originally using. Since I sold the house that had that oven, I can't really get a good measure of it anymore. I suspect it would probably use as much as everybody's 42-inch oven, since I doubt it was as efficient, and it was taller than what is normally recommended.

I suppose if somebody can comment on what volume of wood they have to use to feed a 48-inch oven, then I could get a strong comparison.

[mrchipster]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

I can bring my 42 inch oven to pizza temps with about 2 cu ft of dry oak or elm. This takes about 60-90 minutes
But to fully saturate the heat into the oven I will burn about another 1 cu ft to make the oven keep it's heat to cook for several days. And in the summer up to a week.

I will sometimes build small fires, 1/2 cu ft of wood just to bring the oven back to the 500 range for something or other.

[Rocko Bonaparte]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

please bear with me fixating on wood here.

I can bring my 42 inch oven to pizza temps with about 2 cu ft of dry oak or elm. This takes about 60-90 minutes
But to fully saturate the heat into the oven I will burn about another 1 cu ft to make the oven keep it's heat to cook for several days. And in the summer up to a week.

I will sometimes build small fires, 1/2 cu ft of wood just to bring the oven back to the 500 range for something or other.

We were estimating our wood consumption. My wife and I can't remember how much wood came off the pile, but we estimated with kindling and everything that we would occupy more than 5 cubic feet in our prior oven. Can you estimate how much volume your wood occupied once factored with kindling and stacking?

[mrchipster]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

N

please bear with me fixating on wood here.

We were estimating our wood consumption. My wife and I can't remember how much wood came off the pile, but we estimated with kindling and everything that we would occupy more than 5 cubic feet in our prior oven. Can you estimate how much volume your wood occupied once factored with kindling and stacking?

Split into wrist diamater pieces and stacked I would estimate 4 cu ft required for storage, I dry the wood split into 1/4 to 1/6 logs for about 6 months and then split into the smaller size about 2-3 months before use. I keep my wood in a canvas draped lean to so it dries well. I burn fewer fires in the winter so some of the smaller split wood can be up to 18 months seasoned prior to use.

The lean to gets sun in the afternoon so it is a good drying location.

Some of the wood I have now have now has been drying for 2 years but that is apple and elm. Apple for smoking and elm to get it dry enough to split easier (elm is very rope like wood).

[Rocko Bonaparte]

Re: Trying to narrow down outdoor kitchen layout from scratch

N

Split into wrist diamater pieces and stacked I would estimate 4 cu ft required for storage

Oh, I meant how much space it took up as fuel in the oven itself. I presume you don't cram the wood together into a dense brick all the way through in the oven. We ended up making it much more vacuous in the oven for the fire than it would be in the pile. So I was curious how that might have looked like in volume.

I asked because we only really remember a rough volume for what that was like. I can then work backwards from that to figure out how much wood I was blasting through to keep my old pseudo-cob oven going. It looks like I was running through a lot of wood anyways.

This is part of that infatuation with the 48" I have. I might have to roll back to 42" anyways because I am finding it unreasonable to cram a 48" into the corner of a 16'x10' working area.