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  • #31
    Re: Outdoor sink

    Is it too late to dig a dry well under the sink, or near it ?

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    • #32
      Re: Outdoor sink

      Technical and (probably) unimportant nitpik: water from a sink is blackwater. Lavatories, washing machines and bathtubs are greywater: toilets and sinks are blackwater.

      None of which matters since you won't be using it for heavy dishwashing or food prep the way you would a kitchen sink.

      This has been a semi-useless public service announcement (semi because in the US that kind of distinction can cause massive headaches and in some states can make the health department very not happy with you).
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal." -Mike Ditka
      [/CENTER]

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      • #33
        Re: Outdoor sink

        In a more water-waste conscious society we would make distinctions between water from sewage, and graywater from handwashing, etc., which can be used for things like lawn and garden watering. (plants don't mind soap) I'm told that building departments can erect big obstacles to reusing gray water. In a lot of older cities, they don't ever separate sewage and storm run-off.

        But for all practical purposes, you can drain your outdoor kitchen sink into a french drain without difficulty.
        My geodesic oven project: part 1, part 2

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        • #34
          Re: Outdoor sink

          To add a little to the debate, my outdoor kitchen sink is used EVERY TIME that we have a function/activity. The whole purpose of building it was not just to add convenience to the oven but to get the whole activity out of the hose kitchen and out with the friends and guests.
          I have a slab of black granite that I put over one side of the sink and drainer to roll out and prepare the dough balls, still leaving the larger sink bowl free for rinsing/washing. Yes it was very easy and convenient to connect to the sewer which passes directly under the sink with an inspection point under the cupboards BUT I would have even looked further to make it all work. I still am not connected to running hot water but a bucket from the house kitchen or laundry 20 feet away solves that problem.
          The wife is much happier and the house is kept much cleaner and tidier with the outdoor sink.

          Neill
          Prevention is better than cure, - do it right the first time!

          The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know


          Neillís Pompeiii #1
          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/n...-1-a-2005.html
          Neillís kitchen underway
          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f35/...rway-4591.html

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          • #35
            Re: Outdoor sink

            Originally posted by dmun View Post
            In a more water-waste conscious society we would make distinctions between water from sewage, and graywater from handwashing, etc., which can be used for things like lawn and garden watering. (plants don't mind soap) I'm told that building departments can erect big obstacles to reusing gray water. In a lot of older cities, they don't ever separate sewage and storm run-off.

            But for all practical purposes, you can drain your outdoor kitchen sink into a french drain without difficulty.
            Hi,

            I completely agree with you about the practicality - it's not a major concern (unless the health department says otherwise). And there was a time when I would have agreed with you about the blackwater distinction, but there is a logic to calling kitchen sink water blackwater. It's not the soap; it's the organics. In addition to vegetable scraps, people often put meat scraps down the drain (and a whole host of other junk as well). Meat, and even vegetables, present problems that phosphates don't - which is why sinks are designated as blackwater. It is not as dangerous as septic water, but it's not as safe as regular graywater either.

            I'm not sure I fully agree with their logic, but I do see their point. Maybe someday someone will come up with a safe home blackwater recycling system.

            <shrug>
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal." -Mike Ditka
            [/CENTER]

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            • #36
              Re: Outdoor sink

              Meat, and even vegetables, present problems that phosphates don't - which is why sinks are designated as blackwater. It is not as dangerous as septic water, but it's not as safe as regular graywater either.
              would solving this problem be as simple as pouring Bleach down the drain after a nights use... ? I understand bleach kills most anything, not sure though about its effects on the enviornment...

              Mark

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              • #37
                Re: Outdoor sink

                It probably wouldn't. The trouble starts with decay and bleach won't stop that. Also, a French (or Freedom if you're still ticked off with the French) drain is gravity fed and won't necessarily flush heavy solids all the way down. This could get icky fast with large solids. And if you're ending the drain in the garden bleach does nasty things to plants (say 'herbicide' ).

                You'd have a really clean sink drain, though.
                Last edited by Archena; 09-25-2009, 06:27 AM.
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal." -Mike Ditka
                [/CENTER]

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                • #38
                  Re: Outdoor sink

                  I am reminded why I moved to a third world country. A drop drain or french drain is totally sufficient. Unless your soil is hard pan clay and it peculates reasonably well, you should have no problem. Why would you put organic material down your drain anyway? People need to be trained not to put that stuff down the drain, in the same manner they are taught to recycle. And use the drain sparingly, ie. don't let the water run for long periods of time at full throttle. This is actually a more "green" solution than putting it into the sewer. I agree with the more "water conscious" crowd in that you in the US need to do more of this kind of thing.

                  One small sink, draining into a half meter gravel filled pit 24 inches deep, covered with 6 inches of soil and make a nice planting bed over it. There are many designs out there just for this sort of thing. Common sense should prevail, just don't show the building inspector.
                  Our Facebook Page:http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stoneh...60738907277443

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                  • #39
                    Re: Outdoor sink

                    Hmmm, maybe that wasn't clearest answer I've ever given.

                    I agree that for small outdoor sink a French drain is more than adequate. I never meant to imply otherwise. What we got off on was a discussion on why an interior kitchen sink would produce black water instead of gray water.

                    Rereading Mark's question I may have misunderstood him. I thought the question was a theoretical one about an outdoor sink, but he might have had an interior sink in mind. In either case, technically (although maybe not practically) water from a true sink, not a lavatory, is blackwater. I don't see anything unreasonable in taking additional precautions with an outdoor sink, although I don't think that they're actually necessary in most cases. However, if you are doing all your cooking outdoors the health department is going to be really unhappy with you unless that thing is attached to a sewage drain.

                    The long and the short of it is for all practical purposes the blackwater/graywater distinction really doesn't matter for an outdoor sink that is only used part time. All else is theory.
                    Last edited by Archena; 09-25-2009, 07:38 PM.
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal." -Mike Ditka
                    [/CENTER]

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                    • #40
                      Re: Outdoor sink

                      The problem is the connection. I'm sure I've seen flex plumbing used on standard faucets so it is possible. Maybe there's a special connector? There must be some kind of coupler for it.

                      Careful about consuming the water. Some hoses leach chemicals - which I'm not sure. Personally, I've drunk straight from the hose more times than I can count but I have read some warnings about it.

                      Hmm, this has been a pretty useless post.
                      Last edited by Archena; 10-12-2009, 10:48 AM.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal." -Mike Ditka
                      [/CENTER]

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Outdoor sink

                        I would just plumb the hot & cold together with a "t" and get ann adapter from I think 1/2 to 3/8 cut off your hose and just slip it over and hose clamp it on,, then of course connect the other end of the hose to the house spigot... I've done it before to a valve on a shower head on a waterslide I made for my grandkids I made one summer... (okay i went on it too) 7 feet high and about 25 feet long... It was pretty cool.... Just go to dome depot... If they cant set it up for you I will do it and send you a pic...
                        Cheers
                        Mark

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                        • #42
                          Re: Outdoor sink

                          My sink area is an 8' Corian countertop I got several years ago @ Habitat Reuse Store... with double basin SS sink too. I only paid $70 and it still looks brand new. Solid Surfaces do great outdoors.

                          Until this week, it drained into a dry well... but putting final touches on my new outdoor shower and so my landscaper friend insisted on rerouting that so she dug up yard and laid pipe so it runs into garden spot... and put the grass back down so I can't even tell where she dug up.

                          I don't use THAT much water anyway, so no big deal.

                          I design outdoor kitchens and living rooms and design a large sink AND hot/cold water in every one! Not having a sink in outdoor kitchen/area makes no sense to me and having a sink w/out hot/cold water is next to having no sink! The purpose of an outdoor kitchen is to take living OUTdoors... and who wants to tote all the dirty stuff INside to wash?? To me, that is dysFUNctional!

                          I use my outdoor sink for washing collards in the fall when I do my big cook'n/freezer filling, veggie washing and canning in the summer, pet washing, bubble baths for my nephew till he outgrew it this year, big pot washing, potting/planting... all sorts of uses! And now my outdoor shower uses the same plumbing lines so it's multiFUNtional! I am getting ready to take out that sink and put in a new one with outdoor ice maker (I sell). So I'll plumb that in with my new sink area. And I've already been offered more than I paid for that countertop, so no loss there. If you're not friends with your local Habitat Store, become one! Deals abound on everthing from trees and plants to doors... and that's where I got the "walls" for my shower... old louvered doors... really kewl! Can't see thru them but air can circulate... and just $5/door. Nice Price.

                          My sink is my FAVORITE thing in my outdoor living space, hands down! Once you have one you will wonder why you ever thought you didn't need it... it's an outdoor best friend.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Outdoor sink

                            Welocme aboard Pirate!

                            I enjoy my sink as well, been waiting for it for a long time.

                            Christo.
                            My oven progress -
                            http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/c...cina-1227.html
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                            • #44
                              Re: Outdoor sink

                              im planning to install my sink in the spring, I want to put a ss sink into my counter top,,
                              I have a 4 gal hot water heater (electric) I got for free... Only problem is my countertop is 4 1/2 sold hard maple.... gonns be a tough hole to cut,, probably use a sawz all,, maybe even chain saw for the straight cuts, Im a little afraid that might be a little hard to handle and do nicely,,, Open to suggestions
                              Thanks Mark

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                              • #45
                                Re: Outdoor sink

                                Mark,
                                that shouldn't cause too much of a problem, although 4 1/2" thick top is little overkill.
                                I would carefully measure out the hole several times, then get a good quality hole saw the radius to suit the corners of the bowl. I doubt that any could cut the full depth in a single go and will need to be chiseled out and then a second depth cut made. A good circular saw or your suggested chainsaw can then be used for the straight cuts.
                                You will then have to make up special clips and extended screws to screw the sink down to the bench top or drill from underneat to a depth that the standard clips will reach.

                                Neill
                                Prevention is better than cure, - do it right the first time!

                                The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know


                                Neillís Pompeiii #1
                                http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/n...-1-a-2005.html
                                Neillís kitchen underway
                                http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f35/...rway-4591.html

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