new patio suggestions

[Acoma]

Re: new patio suggestions

Uno, I placed 6-8 inches gravel up retaining wall (not complete). Fabric acting as barrier to rocks and dirt. I have a perforated 3" solid tube along base of rock, several inches from wall and being covered by the rock (3/4"). I will get the tamber before competing more dirt. I have filled one foot of dirt so far, with 1ft. to 3ft. filling to go (depends on area of the slope). I was going to show some photos, but the digital memory card is full. Need to empty it to my Picasa2. If this gets done in time today, I will get a couple photos out tonight. Otherwise, snow expected tonight, showers for the morning. Photos may come later. I will likely tamp dirt Saturday. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

[Unofornaio]

Re: new patio suggestions

Once all dirt is in place, wet, wet, tamp.
> you will have a much more stable ground if you tamp it in what we call "lifts" this is a couple of inches at a time by hand, with a machine several inches at a time. The problem with doing it after is you will always have voids that will come back to haunt you.

I have good old nature to help with settling too.
>this will help, but again you will end up with a much better base if you tamp it in lifts.

My idea is to get the dirt completed, allow settling over the winter, tamping now, and in early spring.
> this certainly will not hurt.

Did you incorporate weep holes in the retaining wall or put a French drain or gravel at the bottom to get rid of water? This is the number 1 reason for masonry/concrete retaining walls failing. remember all the water from the patio is going to have to go somewhere even if you butt straight up against the wall with the slab
Thank you for your advice.
>your welcome.

[Acoma]

Re: new patio suggestions

Mark, I also go to Barbaque Galore forum for barbequeing, smoking (foods) and kitchen/ Island ideas/building. You should go on that site to get such information on islands. It is filled with many quality builders, such as you find here for building ovens. I have learned so much on islands, photos, correspondence, etc. Try it out.

[Brauma]

Re: new patio suggestions

Ive been search and searching for a pic of the outdoor kitchen that I have in mind. This pic is the closest that I can find. But it is way nicer than I have in mind. I want a cedar shake roof with the cupola. More rustic in other words. And no pergola.



Here's another question: if I want my kitchen 12x12, then I want my roof line a little wider - to over hang some. What size should roof structure be?

I guess what Im looking for is, if I install anchors in my patio at 12x12, will this line up well with the ceiling joyces/joices?

[Acoma]

Re: new patio suggestions

If you are speaking about filling in an area that will have concrete or pavers over it be sure to tamp this area down as you infill. a couple of inches of dirt some water to help it compact and a hand tamper or rent a vibra plate and do it all in one day. The weakest part of flat work (including pavers) will aways be the sub-straight-whats under it.

I promise you will not regret the extra time and effort to do this step.

Good luck

Uno, I plan on doing that exactly. Right now, I have too much dirt in certain areas of the back yard, so I rototilled 4x over (clay area). Now I will move the extra over to the low section where the retaining wall exist. Then I will regrade the rest of the back. Once all dirt is in place, wet, wet, tamp. I have good old nature to help with settling too. I live in the same region as Les, where the ground has 8" of frost zone during winter. My idea is to get the dirt completed, allow settling over the winter, tamping now, and in early spring. I would then getting building on the Pizza oven/ courtyard. I will attempt to get photos over the next day to show the area of dirt and (future)courtyard. Thank you for your advice.

[jwnorris]

Re: new patio suggestions

When I used to build for a living, we sometimes left a piece of rebar sticking up where the middle of the post would end up and then drill a hole in the post, so it would slide over. <snip>

I found the same approach used on the front porch of a house I sold about 12 years ago. The look is very clean.

When I had to replace the post, the rebar had rusted and was almost completely gone. I used the same concept on the replacement posts but, I found some scrap stainless steel rod about the same diameter and used that.

J W

[Archena]

Re: new patio suggestions

Thanks! 'Preciate it!

[Unofornaio]

Re: new patio suggestions

Anyway, I wonder about that kind of thing having seen what a mess it can make when the ground isn't stable enough under it.

There is a process that the excavation contractor, paving contractor and the concrete contractor need to go through prior to sign off in each trade..this clearly was not done here. Typically the first person on site is the excavation contractor who must have a soils engineer sign off on his compaction rate.

Even before this as part of plan submittal to the County or City an soil report is sometimes required to determine how the proper compaction percentage can be achieved based on the soil make up. The site is then fortified either via natural fill or adding materials such as various aggregate mixes. This is one of the function of a soils engineer to "engineer" the soil to accommodate its usage.

[asudavew]

Re: new patio suggestions

How are posts typically anchored to an existing patio?

When I used to build for a living, we sometimes left a piece of rebar sticking up where the middle of the post would end up and then drill a hole in the post, so it would slide over.

Other times, if the slab was already there, we would use L brackets and drill a hole in the slab with a hammerdrill and screw the L brackets to the post, and use Tapcons(blue concrete screws) to screw the other end of the bracket to the slab.

[Unofornaio]

Re: new patio suggestions

How are posts typically anchored to an existing patio?

You can have a bracket fabricated that can be embedded in the slab with the male end sticking up and have matching holes in the post. This way you will not see it.

Or you may be able to find a Simpson Simpson Strong-Tie: Helping to Build Stronger, Safer Structures product that will work for that size.

[Brauma]

Re: new patio suggestions

I havent gotten the patio poured yet but Im close.

Question about positioning posts for the overhead structure: Is there an anchor of some sort that I should have built into the new concrete to support the posts?

I intend to use big cedar posts. 4 of them. They may be random size/round or I may have the sawmill cut them 8x8.

How are posts typically anchored to an existing patio?

[Archena]

Re: new patio suggestions

Should you give it some time to see how it settles? The reason I ask is a fast food place was built not far from where I live on some less than wonderful property. They filled in one heck of a lot to cover the uneven (we're talking small valley) ground but within 2 months of completion the parking lot was suffering some serious upheaval (Alabama is not known for cold winters but that asphalt is definitely coming up - by 4 to 6 inches!) and shifting damage. I don't know about the building's foundation but given the extreme damage to the parking lot (you don't want to drive on that thing without a 4 wheel drive - and that's not much of an exaggeration) I'd bet the foundation suffered, too. That, and the building has stood empty for 4 years now with no buyer in sight.

Anyway, I wonder about that kind of thing having seen what a mess it can make when the ground isn't stable enough under it.

[Unofornaio]

Re: new patio suggestions

I also have slope issue, 10 feet by 60 feet that I am confronting. Just finished the wall, now I am filling dirt to level area. Next is Pizza courtyard.

If you are speaking about filling in an area that will have concrete or pavers over it be sure to tamp this area down as you infill. a couple of inches of dirt some water to help it compact and a hand tamper or rent a vibra plate and do it all in one day. The weakest part of flat work (including pavers) will aways be the sub-straight-whats under it.

I promise you will not regret the extra time and effort to do this step.

Good luck

[Archena]

Re: new patio suggestions

...

Too bad Uno doesn't live nearby.
>>>Thanks. How far are you? work is pretty slow right now it might be worth the drive or flight would a bull-float be carry on or cargo?

Carry on, definitely carry on...


I wanna be at the airport when you go through security...

[Acoma]

Re: new patio suggestions

2 cents. Definately avoid a sealant for outdoor patio floors with small children. I build a 12*25 patio, topped with flagstone, then sealed. When the patio was wet, my 2yr old daughter slipped and nearly cracked her head. This was a while ago, different home.
I also have slope issue, 10 feet by 60 feet that I am confronting. Just finished the wall, now I am filling dirt to level area. Next is Pizza courtyard.