Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

[Ken524]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

My wife was suggesting a dry out dome, which pulls moisture out of varying elements. Think of water damage to homes, and those little machines that suck up water from the walls, may work too?

Good ideas. Tell your wife, thanks for brainstorming! I think the easiest, most cost effective method right now is keeping it covered in the rain; uncovered and on fire on the sunny days.

I'll be done playing Santa Claus in a few more days so I'll be able to get back to setting fires

[Acoma]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

Ken, I am happy that you are working through this issue. No sweat though about mind reading. If nobody was aware of compression giving way when moist, your input is valuable. My wife was suggesting a dry out dome, which pulls moisture out of varying elements. Think of water damage to homes, and those little machines that suck up water from the walls, may work too? Well, Anger gets no positives to this, but the constructive efforts will pay off.

[Ken524]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

Have you thrown a long level across the floor of the oven in an attempt to determine if the whole oven has settled downward in unison (sp?)? Hopefully, that is the case.

The level idea won't work. My floor bricks are all "floating" on the insulation. They aren't mortared to the structure so the oven is settling around the floor. Which is good because the floor is still dead level with no buckling. I think I discovered a good argument against mortaring the floor bricks.

The dome is in good shape; still no cracks, so I think it has settled fairly evenly. I'm guessing the whole structure tilted slightly forward and to the left as you look from the front. Nothing has moved more than a 1/4". Just enough to overstress the arch assembly.

Perhaps raking the hot coals out to the front every few minutes would increase your entryway floor heat as well.

We are thinking alike. That's exactly what I did yesterday morning. In fact I moved part of the fire onto the vent landing and on the concrete hearth.

Hang in there Ken. It may take some time, but I think the board will eventually stabilize and your repairs will be permanent. I've got my fingers crossed for you.

Thanks George! I think the worst is behind. I'm looking forward to getting back to the enclosure.

[gjbingham]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

Wow,
turn off the computer for a day and everything's changed! Sorry to hear about your insulation board, Ken.

My first thought when I looked at the photo you posted was that the entire board across the front, at least that portion you can see, seems to be compressed to the same height. It seems like you should be seeing different amounts of compression based on the weight of the bricks sitting on that portion of the board.

Have you thrown a long level across the floor of the oven in an attempt to determine if the whole oven has settled downward in unison (sp?)? Hopefully, that is the case.

I agree that burning the moisture out of the floor may be the best fix. I'd throw some kind of vented door on it to maximize the heat you get out in the entryway. Perhaps raking the hot coals out to the front every few minutes would increase your entryway floor heat as well.

Hang in there Ken. It may take some time, but I think the board will eventually stabilize and your repairs will be permanent. I've got my fingers crossed for you.

George

[Frances]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

Oh, and I'm glad it seems to be working out Ken! I've still got my fingers crossed, and it's good to know your beautifully built oven wasn't to blame....

[Frances]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

We've talked before about AAC, but I don't think anyone has built an oven of the stuff yet, at least that that they've told us about

I thought Carl was using a similar product under his oven.
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f6/t...tion-2527.html And it says in this thread how AAC becomes brittle with the heat/cool cycles.

[Frances]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

We've talked before about AAC, but I don't think anyone has built an oven of the stuff yet, at least that that they've told us about

I thought Carl was using a similar product under his oven.
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f6/t...tion-2527.html And it says in this thread how AAC becomes brittle with the heat/cool cycles.

[Ken524]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

Robert,

I'm not angry at the ThermalCeramics folks. They described the performance of their product based on the specs I gave them. They can't read minds. Stuff Happens, life goes on. I'm not really here to vent (I do that with my wife ); just to warn others getting ready to build to stay away from Kaowool Board (Kaowool blankets work great!).

The oven seems to be stabilizing as I fire it. Even when wet, there is only so far the board can be compressed. I suspect the worst has passed. I got the dome white again this morning before heading to work. It's really cool to see how the dome goes white faster with every burn.

A couple more hot fires and I think I will be ready to continue with insulation and enclosure.

[Acoma]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

You forgot?! Why not the idiot engineer! That is his job, pry questions to confirm the product fits the need. You need to explain to them that their lackk of knowledge in confirming the uses to what they sell is costing you the stability to what you spent hours and hours building. One thing I learned while in the technology industry was that our engineers pried every door open to be sure all was fitting (needs and solutions).. I apply that to my every day life and notice how so many sales people and technical people just ASSUME the buyer knows. If that was the case, why do they have a job?

[Ken524]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

if I remember correctly that insulation board was expensive.

Yep. One of life's cruel little ironies . Both the dealer and the engineer I spoke with at ThermalCeramics agreed the Kaowool would be good for the job. I forgot to ask about it's compression properties when wet. Oops!

[dmun]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

I love it, AAC legos



We've talked before about AAC, but I don't think anyone has built an oven of the stuff yet, at least that that they've told us about

[RCLake]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

Ken, Sorry for your floor problems, if I remember correctly that insulation board was expensive. I've order my insulation board so this won't help me but I would like the insight from our experts on using cellular concrete - this is what they are using for structures on some houses now. I don't know enough to say it would stand the weight or provide the correct insulation property. One salesman for the boards said it was very similiar to this.

This may be a hairbrain idea, but it is something that may be readily available and less expensive.
Aerated Concrete, Lightweight Concrete, Cellular Concrete and Foamed Concrete

[jwnorris]

Re: Curing, Cracks & Other Kentucky Conundrums

<snip>
It's the Kaowool insulation board that the oven is sitting on that is causing the problems. When this stuff gets wet, it turns to mush. The left, front edges of the board are wet due to condensation, leaking rain water, and leftover moisture from laying bricks.
<snip>
JAMES: Can you guys put a notation in the Pompeii plans recommending future builders to NOT use Kaowool Insulation Board under their ovens? This stuff is inappropriate for use under an oven. I would hate for someone else to go through this.

I built a modular FB Casa110 and used SuperIsol under the floor. In hindsight this thread is interesting, and we can all learn from it.

While I did not have the same issues with residual moisture from bricks and mortar, when I set the floor I did attempt to mortar the sections to the board.

The SuperIsol wicks so much moisture from the mortar that it was impossible to set in this manner. We tried to saturate the board and were unsuccessful in preventing the wicking of moisture.

However, the board stayed rigid the whole time. Obviously, heat is not the only issue when insulating the floor.

J W

[Acoma]

Re: Curing, Cracks &amp; Other Kentucky Conundrums

Ken, if you still have lots of moisture, go for it, doing strong fires and maybe go on high with an electric heater from below. I had my electric heater on full time underneath the hearth and the Insblock felt warm..The hearth even cured better too. Attach from both sides.

[Ken524]

Re: Curing, Cracks &amp; Other Kentucky Conundrums

Just keep your collective fingers crossed in hopes I can get this stuff dried out before further damage.