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  • #91
    Re: Starting your fire

    It does not matter weather or not the wood is green or air dried, I am simply saying, in my somewhat experienced opinion, that trying to get a jump on the next fireing by "drying" the wood in a hot, recently fired and baked in bread
    oven is not only a false economy, but can be dangerous, and that saturating the interior of an oven, and chimney with creosote from charring firewood, that is also absorbed by the firebrick, does no good.

    I have no idea of the circumstances of that poster that dries wood in their oven, they did not say.
    I am not saying that a top down burn reduces outgassing. We want outgassing since that IS how wood burns.
    Much of the gasses from wood combustion do not burn properly in a oven/firebox that is not hot enough yet
    I am theorizing that the wood outgasses will ignite much more fully when the wood is well heated somewhat gradually, as opposed to wood just loaded (at a core temp somewhere between room temp and whatever the temp is of the wood that is just brought in from outside) and subjected to a rush of flame from paper and kindling.
    Anyway, the proof is in the pudding. It works for me, I feel good about it, and most of the other members of our Masonry Heater Assn agree and teach it to their clients.
    But don't just take my word for it, try it and see for yourself. You can always go back to your own favorite method.
    The customer I spoke of in my post is a commercial breadbaker, and has a burn in his oven every day, and very often would dry wood more fully regardless of if the wood is green or air dried.
    They do not bake their firewood in the bread oven any longer, just their bread.

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    • #92
      Re: Starting your fire

      Hey JP!,
      I'm going to try the stacking method you explained. It makes much sense to me. I've been using newspaper because that's the only thing that's available to me. Not much around here in the way of dried twigs. (I'll need to hunt them down.) And you are absolutely right about the newspaper, etc., blackening the dome interior with soot and creosote. That's the one thing I'm not too comfortable with as it coats the entire dome with a thick black, almosy greasy, soot and tends to smoke out the neighbors a bit upon start-up.
      Thanks,
      Rick
      View my pictures at, Picasaweb.google.com/xharleyguy

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Starting your fire

        I read an article about top down fires recently and thouight, what a lot of garbage, how on earth should that work? ...And now I read it again here. So maybe there's something in it after all

        OK, I'll try it, the next time I light a fire...
        "Building a Brick oven is the most fun anyone can have by themselves." (Terry Pratchett... slightly amended)

        http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/p...pics-2610.html
        http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f9/p...nues-2991.html

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        • #94
          Re: Starting your fire

          I've been using my homemade propane-powered venturi burner.

          It works quit nicely for a little preheating too!

          I'm gonna start a thread on it soon.

          Just have to make it through the busy holidays.
          My thread:
          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/d...ress-2476.html
          My costs:
          http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...Xr0fvgxuh4s7Hw
          My pics:
          http://picasaweb.google.com/dawatsonator

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Starting your fire

            This snip of this post below from the stovers list recently touched on a more scientific explanation of what we call a top down burn. It is being used here in a different application below that focuses attention on developing small efficient cooking and heating stoves for families in developing countries, but the process is the same.

            The criteria for air coming "up under the bottom" is provided in an oven or masonry heater by the first course of wood on the bottom being laid front to back, providing a channel for air coming into the oven thru the door to reach the core and rear of the wood stack pretty much equally.




            Dear All:

            If you have a vessel full of biomass and air coming in the bottom (under
            a grate, maybe) and light it on top you have a Toplit Updraft (inverted
            downdraft) gasifier and the temperature rises from room to ~600C as the
            flame front (flaming pyrolysis) passes down, leaving 15-25% charcoal in
            its wake and making a very combustible gas.

            If you then allow the flame to finish in the TLUD mode, you can fill the
            vessel a second time with more biomass and continue in the conventional
            BLUD (Bottom Lit Updraft) mode, the same that is used in Lurgi gasifiers
            with coal. The hot gases from the charcoal begin drying the fuel and
            the gas won't support combustion until _all_ the water has been removed
            (white smoke, non combustible). Then there is a long period when the
            pyrolysis gas is combustible and eventually becomes all charcoal. But
            the pyrolysis takes much longer and gives a different type of gas then
            the TLUD operation. Both have their unique advantages.

            TOM REED BEF

            Da

            <stoves@listserv.repp.org>

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            • #96
              Re: Starting your fire

              Hey JP,

              Welcome aboard. It's great having such an experienced builder in the community -- thanks for sharing your knowledge. I keep meaning for FB to join the masonry heater association -- and we need to do that. If my memory is right (which if highly questionable), you answered questions for me by email quite a few years ago when I built my first Scott oven. A renewed thanks for that.

              I look forward to trying the top down burn.

              James
              Pizza Ovens
              Outdoor Fireplaces

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Starting your fire

                Hi James
                You, or anyone that is really interested in learning and sharing knowledge regarding bakeoven construction, design, operation etc should be a member the Masonry Heater Assn.
                Besides all the emissions testing procedures we have developed and are currently developing, and have performed on dozens of masonry heaters establishing a substancial base line of emissions data, developing a masonry heater education and certification program, the writing of the ASTM standard that is referanced in our national code, and many other projects and programs, its our annual meeting in the mountains of North carolina that get top rating.
                Its a week of a variety of masonry heater and bakeoven discussion and construction, then firing and testing whatever varities of heaters and bakeovens that we do in any given year.
                We have members from the US, Canada, Sweden, Germany, Japan, Finland and probably a few more that I dont recall off hand. And many join us at Wildacres. It makes qiute a mix!
                Various presentations from our members every evening in our hall, excellent food, spectacular views, hands on bricks and mud sessions.
                A MHA member, or guest oven builder, leads a bakeoven build over the week, then it is used to make lots of pizza for our annual pizza party.
                The morning after we all break down the builds and stash the bricks away in the barn for next year and head home.
                Check out the photo reports on various years at the MHS e-zine at.. Masonry Heater Association News - The Heater Mason's E-Zine
                Scroll down the page for a link and try to stay focused or you will get sidetracked on another interesting link along the way down.

                I suppose at this point I should add that I am a founding member of the MHA, and I served on its executive for 6 years in the late 90's, and I take most any opportunity to promote our efforts.

                Anyway James, I hope to see you there this spring.

                JP







                Originally posted by james View Post
                Hey JP,

                Welcome aboard. It's great having such an experienced builder in the community -- thanks for sharing your knowledge. I keep meaning for FB to join the masonry heater association -- and we need to do that. If my memory is right (which if highly questionable), you answered questions for me by email quite a few years ago when I built my first Scott oven. A renewed thanks for that.

                I look forward to trying the top down burn.

                James

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Starting your fire

                  You can say that again!

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Starting your fire

                    Flint rocks and tender on calm days, gasoline and a torch on the windy days... just kidding.
                    If I can't get a fire going with a match, newspaper, and kindling then I should have never left my electric range.

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                    • Re: Starting your fire

                      If I can't get a fire going with a match, newspaper, and kindling then I should have never left my electric range.[/QUOTE]

                      I will second that

                      RT

                      Comment


                      • Re: Starting your fire

                        Me? ..Sticking with the weed burner. I've got 2500 pounds of mass to heat. Sticks ain't gonna cut it if I want to eat on the same calendar day.
                        What's really nice about this is that a man can tip out to the oven on a skin numbing, cold morning and set the torch to low and after some coffee and prepping in the kitchen, I can return and get the blaze a goin' in earnest. No thermal shock. My 2&#162;.

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                        • Re: Starting your fire

                          Pair of long johns, wool stocking cap, hot cup of coffee, and the smell of burning wood... makes any morning a good morning.
                          Never calculated the total weight of my bread oven but I've got 1,750 lbs just in fire brick, couple more pounds in the 4" thick concrete cladding, few more pounds in the 4" thick vermiculite hearth slab and a couple more in the 4" thick concrete hearth slab...I'm cooking in less than 2hrs.

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                          • Starting your fire

                            For starting fires and barbeques we in Turkey use Cirra. It is heartwood from a pine tree and has a high resin concetration. It bursts into flame with little persuasion and readily lights larger kindling reducing the time taken to get to cooking temps. Dont think it would work with the top down burn but if I put it in a couple of rows from the top it may work. Must give it a try.

                            Last edited by Inishta; 11-29-2007, 11:34 PM. Reason: Typo

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                            • Re: Starting your fire

                              Is there any reason against using nut shells as kindling? Peanuts and walnuts?
                              "Building a Brick oven is the most fun anyone can have by themselves." (Terry Pratchett... slightly amended)

                              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/p...pics-2610.html
                              http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f9/p...nues-2991.html

                              Comment


                              • Re: Starting your fire

                                I was using newspaper and sticks (kindling) but I found these babies at Home Depot for $3.00 a box. They are awesome! You can put them under a pile of split logs and within two or three minutes, the logs are burning! I use two under the pile but I'm sure you could get away with using only one towards the middle of the log stack. I use one of those candle lighters to get under the stack to light them. (see photo)
                                Rick
                                View my pictures at, Picasaweb.google.com/xharleyguy

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