Definition of Dry Wood?

[CanuckJim]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

Wa Wa,

Should have been more clear. Yep, the cracks in the wood are called checking. The round in question is a piece of white cedar that was cut standing dead. Great stuff that; ready to burn anytime. By the way, even when cut green, white cedar will be ready to burn in less than six months, long as the diameter is under four inches. It's always best to cut green wood in late fall, early winter, when most of the sap has retreated to the root system.

The round in the upper right is maple limb wood (checked and discolored) that was in the woodshed about two years. The split stock below is Hard Maple.

The stamping is usually on the outside support member. I get pallets from a guy in the siding business (hardwood and softwood), and there is no stamping at all. I don't even pull the nails, just scrape them out with the ash. No damage to the hearth bricks, either.

Jim

[WaWaZat]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

I bought some "100% Hardwood Briquette" charcoal that I figured would be good to season my small refractory dome with this weekend. I just had a long talk with a firewood supplier on the So side of Chicago... more of a character who really enjoys talking about wood.

1st off he recommended not using briquettes in any WFO because any briquette... even 100% hardwood... uses ingredients like ammonium nitrate & other chemicals that we wouldn't want absorbed in our ovens.

He convinced me right away so I figured I use some of the lump charcoal I have around here. His thoughts were, while this is a natural charcoal, it might be too harsh to use in the oven. His point was that once you've burned something in an oven, whatever harshness, chemicals, etc, will stay with the oven & have an effect on what's cooked in there for a long time. This guy's company makes there own lump charcoal by the way.

This dealer says that he gets all his wood from down in southern IL and that unlike many of the other suppliers here in Chi that are using local wood & trying to turn it over fast, his is 100% hardwood and he described his seasoning process... trees that are "falled" in autumn, cut before Jan; stacked in certain sized rows & left to season down south where the climate is warmer, then brought up here & stacked again.

He sells his seasoned hardwood for $140/half face chord. Now another supplier that I have to drive past to get to this guy sells a half face for $45... He claims to know that this other dealer is not only selling greener, local wood, but is cheating it by mixing in soft woods.

What does everyone else here pay? My caution about buying form this guy is price and that he is truly a salesmen... he admits that he follows the philosophy that; " if you can't impress 'em with information, baffle 'em w/BS".

What are everyone's thoughts on this as well as his recommendations for using only kindling & hardwood for curing?

[Neil2]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

It is interesting that almost all the wood used for fireplaces give off the same amount of BTUs per pound if well seasoned.

Hardwoods are preferred for fireplaces because they are heavier and thus a given volume give off more BTUs . You don't have to add wood as often (or clean out ash as often) which is a convienence for fireplaces or wood stoves.

For outdoor ovens this is not an issue. In my experiences, these things are not fussy and any well seasoned wood will work OK, hardwood or softwood. The strategy then is to look for the best value per pound of wood available locally.

[WaWaZat]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

It is interesting that almost all the wood used for fireplaces give off the same amount of BTUs per pound if well seasoned.

Hardwoods are preferred for fireplaces because they are heavier and thus a given volume give off more BTUs . You don't have to add wood as often (or clean out ash as often) which is a convienence for fireplaces or wood stoves.

For outdoor ovens this is not an issue. In my experiences, these things are not fussy and any well seasoned wood will work OK, hardwood or softwood. The strategy then is to look for the best value per pound of wood available locally.

Well I would think that in that value per lb calculation, the ratio of hard/softwood in the stack would have to be figured in... softwood not burning as long as hard.

I've narrowed my choices down to 3 dealers;
The guy that claims his southern wood is superior to everyone else's, includes only hardwoods - mostly oak with possibly some other flavored hardwood varieties; $65/ 1/4 face

The yard that claims 100% hardwood made up of mostly of mulberry, maple & some honey locust. Says wood has been seasoned all summer - does not season in stacks, but in HUGE piles; $25/ 1/4 face

Large local garden center, claims 100% oak seasoned for a year; $47/ 1/4 face

This is where the education from this post about how to look for appropriately seasoned wood will come in handy.

Now what types of things do I look for to make sure the wood they are claiming to sell me is what they say it is? How do I tell a hardwood from a soft?

[dmun]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

Just a random search turned this up:

Firewood Identification

I'm from the burn-anything-that's-not-pressure-treated camp, btw...

[WaWaZat]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

Just a random search turned this up:

Firewood Identification

I'm from the burn-anything-that's-not-pressure-treated camp, btw...

Great stuff! But basically it says that once wood is cut & seasoned, it's all about trusting your wood dealer because it gets tough to tell what's what.

[Neil2]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

This table shows that, per ton, all wood is about the same (see right most column). 13 million BTUs per ton.

based on data from: U.S. Forest Products Laboratory

The first number is the weight of a seasoned cord in pounds, second number is heat produced per cord in million BTUs, last number is heat produced per ton in million BTUs.

Hardwoods
Black Ash 2992 19.1 12.8
White Ash 3689 23.6 12.8
Red Oak 3757 24.0 12.8
Beech 3757 24.0 12.8
Blue Beech 3890 26.8 13.8
White Oak 4012 25.7 12.8
White Birch 3179 20.3 12.8
Grey Birch 3179 20.3 12.8
YellowBirch 3689 23.6 12.8
Paper Birch 3179 20.3 12.8
Black Birch 3890 26.8 13.8
Hickory 4327 27.7 12.8
Red or 2924 18.7 12.8
Cherry 3120 20.0 12.8
BlackCherry 2880 19.9 13.8
White Elm 3052 19.5 12.8
AmericanElm 3052 19.5 12.8
Aspen 2295 14.7 12.8
Basswood 2108 13.5 12.8
Cottonwood 2108 13.5 12.8
Apple 4140 26.5 12.8
Hemlock 2482 15.9 12.8
BlackLocust 3890 26.8 13.8
Sugar Maple 3757 24.0 12.8
Eastern 4267 27.3 12.8
Hackberry 3247 20.8 12.8
Boxelder 2797 17.9 12.8
Butternut 2100 14.5 13.8
Softwoods
White Cedar 1913 12.2 12.8
Eastern 2236 14.3 12.8
Western 2236 14.3 12.8
Ponderosa 2380 15.2 12.8
Tamarack 3247 20.8 12.8
Spruce 2100 14.5 13.8
Black Spruce 2482 15.9 12.8
Jack Pine 2669 17.1 12.8
Norway Pine 2669 17.1 12.8
Pitch Pine 2669 17.1 12.8
Balsam Fir 2236 14.3 12.8
Willow 2100 14.5 13.8

If the wood is mixed, try to price it by the ton.

[WaWaZat]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

Well, the problem is that wood is sold by volume and not by weight. So if I'm reading this correctly, actually... according to this list... Hickory at 27.7 million BTUs would be the most efficient per chord.

What figure tells us how long wood will burn? That would be a factor in figuring bang for the buck.

[RTflorida]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

I love hickory.....burns long and hot (muvh hotter than oak). My problem is finding hickory that has not been eaten up by powder post beetles and dome othe big worny larvae.

RT

[dougrappe]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

Hey WaWaZat, I am appreciating this thread, I started out burning kiln dried hardwood scrap from work and found that it made some very nasty black smoke, now i'm in the process of "un-drying" it. Have to get the moisture content back up from 7-8 to something like 15%, I guess some water is necessary for clean combustion especially during heat up of the oven. Anyway, I have tried just two of the local firewood vendors, and found that: surprise, you do get what you pay for. I'm interested to know which So. Side guy you talked to. I bought from A1 on Cermak road (at the expensive end) and the place on Kingsbury near Division street (inexpensive.)
No complaints with either, the more expensive was oak/walnut/cherry versus the cheap, a mix of Chicago street trees including some softwood. Considering trying some other sources until I can get my "free" wood situation sorted out.

Thanks,

Doug

[WaWaZat]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

Hey WaWaZat, I am appreciating this thread, I started out burning kiln dried hardwood scrap from work and found that it made some very nasty black smoke, now i'm in the process of "un-drying" it. Have to get the moisture content back up from 7-8 to something like 15%, I guess some water is necessary for clean combustion especially during heat up of the oven. Anyway, I have tried just two of the local firewood vendors, and found that: surprise, you do get what you pay for. I'm interested to know which So. Side guy you talked to. I bought from A1 on Cermak road (at the expensive end) and the place on Kingsbury near Division street (inexpensive.)
No complaints with either, the more expensive was oak/walnut/cherry versus the cheap, a mix of Chicago street trees including some softwood. Considering trying some other sources until I can get my "free" wood situation sorted out.

Thanks,

Doug

Good Wood in Chinatown is the guy that's really into his work yet on the high side of the price span.

Ez-Tree Recycling 71st & Dorchester was very inexpensive however they have their wood sitting in HUGE piles... not seasoned in stacks. They say their wood was cut in the Spring and right now is dry, but he told me in the winter, his supply would likely be more green.

I ended up finding a guy on Craig's List down in Manhattan IL. Got a generous 1/4 face of mixed, dry hardwoods for $30. He had all his wood off the ground in 4x8 stacks. Really nice guy & seems honest. Let me know if you'd like his #. So far so good.... however I don't have anything to compare it to.

All the above dealers claim to be selling only hardwood. The guy in Manhattan even showed me his pile of soft wood so I knew what to stay away from.

[MK1]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

I've noticed open cell wood like cherry and walnut actually dry fairly quick, 2-3 months (if stacked in a fairly dry spot). White oak and osage orange amongst other closed cell species take at least a year.

Mark

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

Hey WaWaZat, I am appreciating this thread, I started out burning kiln dried hardwood scrap from work and found that it made some very nasty black smoke, now i'm in the process of "un-drying" it. Have to get the moisture content back up from 7-8 to something like 15%

hey doug, Im curious about this as i do have some access to kiln dried scraps, was it only a certain type of wood or was it all the kiln dried ?

Mark

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

Here are pix of the stamps on 2 of my pallets. What do they mean?

Hey wawazat,
Im not sure if i said it in this thread dont like to repeat myself if i can help it, But from what I've been told, Pallets that are painted are made from hardwoods and they are painted to identify them for heavier loads... Unpainted pallets are usually made more cheaply and from soft woods,,

Hope this helps

Mark

[dougrappe]

Re: Definition of Dry Wood?

Hey WaWaZat, thanks for sharing your research, next time I'm out in the "country" with my truck I will make a point to load up, as usual you pay a premium for stuff in the city, meanwhile I'm experimenting again with my scrap wood from work...

Mark, When I first started burning the kiln dried hardwood scrap, I tried to figure out if there was a particularly offensive species in the mix, at first I was sure I must have accidentally included something with a finish on it since the smoke was so acrid. But it turned out it was all making black smoke; cherry, walnut, poplar, maple, mahogany, oaks, ash, all of it. So after doing some reading, I decided to try to add some moisture, weighed a couple boxes of scrap and then added the appropriate amount of water to bring the moisture content up to where it would be, left it in a covered plastic drum for a couple of weeks. Last night I fired up the oven and was happy to find that the black smoke problem was pretty much gone, with the exception of Hard Maple. So I'm figuring the maple, since it is very dense/not so porous just needs more soaking. Actually I threw some of that on the fire once the oven was up to 750-800 degrees and it wasn't a problem. So I say if you can get some hardwood scrap, even if it's kiln dried, give it a try. You can at least use it once the oven is up at high temps, or go the re-moisturizing route which seems to be working ok for me.

Have fun,

Doug