Recipe from an 1893 book.

[v12spirit]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

I'm not actually planning to experiment with it. I am trying to take an educated guess at the chemistry, but my education must be a bit lacking.
In any case, I doubt it'd work out all that cheap.
The major component is iron filings. I reckon you'd want clean filings, not anything that's been cut with a disk, as that would have a fair level of contamination in it. (The disks are carborundum, but the binder is some substance that melts.)
I reckon the iron would end up sintered - which won't be all that dense.

If you want to cast an oven with a homebrew, try reading michelevit's "Brickless oven on a shoestring" thread for some insights.

Quick heat up is a function of size, shape, thermal mass, insulation, and firewood quality.

Hint, a small oven may use less wood to heat than a large oven, but it won't necessarily be faster, due to you can't fit as much fire in it.\

Anyway, my personal experience is that the day will come when pizzas just ain't enough, and you'll want to do all the other stuff - roasts, breads, retained heat baking in general.

Thanks wotavidone for linking me to the thread. I'm reading it. It is so helpful

[wotavidone]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

Even with wet cutting you should protect your lungs, the sharp silicon oxide that causes all the problems is still present in the water spray, I have a mate who now has silicosis from wet cutting bricks for a living.

Exactly. I might have to get you to speak to our masons. I tried to tell them the other day that just because they have a wet saw that is no excuse for not wearing any breathing protection.

[wotavidone]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

I'm not actually planning to experiment with it. I am trying to take an educated guess at the chemistry, but my education must be a bit lacking.
In any case, I doubt it'd work out all that cheap.
The major component is iron filings. I reckon you'd want clean filings, not anything that's been cut with a disk, as that would have a fair level of contamination in it. (The disks are carborundum, but the binder is some substance that melts.)
I reckon the iron would end up sintered - which won't be all that dense.

If you want to cast an oven with a homebrew, try reading michelevit's "Brickless oven on a shoestring" thread for some insights.

Quick heat up is a function of size, shape, thermal mass, insulation, and firewood quality.

Hint, a small oven may use less wood to heat than a large oven, but it won't necessarily be faster, due to you can't fit as much fire in it.\

Anyway, my personal experience is that the day will come when pizzas just ain't enough, and you'll want to do all the other stuff - roasts, breads, retained heat baking in general.

[v12spirit]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

David, I think the "Fireproof Cement No 2" is the substance you make by mixing the iron, lime, salt and vinegar.
I'm still trying to figure out how it works.
I do believe, though, that it is meant for temperatures higher than we can achieve in a wood oven.
i.e. we may not be able to get it hot enough to "set" properly.

wotavidone, I am longing to see the results of your experiment

[david s]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

David, I think the "Fireproof Cement No 2" is the substance you make by mixing the iron, lime, salt and vinegar.
I'm still trying to figure out how it works.
I do believe, though, that it is meant for temperatures higher than we can achieve in a wood oven.
i.e. we may not be able to get it hot enough to "set" properly.

Ok, I see what you mean. It may be fun trying it out then

[wotavidone]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

It may be worth doing some trials, but remember that the iron filings will be subject to rusting even though they're in an alkaline environment heat will accelerate any reaction.. Stainless steel needles are the recommended reinforcing for this reason (and they're not cheap). I would suspect that the kind of proportion of iron filings you'd have to add, will weaken the mix to such an extent that it won't be strong enough. Unfortunately the recipe does not give the quantity of fireproof cement (presumably calcium aluminate cement)

David, I think the "Fireproof Cement No 2" is the substance you make by mixing the iron, lime, salt and vinegar.
I'm still trying to figure out how it works.
I do believe, though, that it is meant for temperatures higher than we can achieve in a wood oven.
i.e. we may not be able to get it hot enough to "set" properly.

[david s]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

It may be worth doing some trials, but remember that the iron filings will be subject to rusting even though they're in an alkaline environment heat will accelerate any reaction.. Stainless steel needles are the recommended reinforcing for this reason (and they're not cheap). I would suspect that the kind of proportion of iron filings you'd have to add, will weaken the mix to such an extent that it won't be strong enough. Unfortunately the recipe does not give the quantity of fireproof cement (presumably calcium aluminate cement)

[v12spirit]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

Recipe from an 1893 book.
We went to a book fair today and I picked up an old book on, Cements, Glues & Gums.

Fireproof cement No 2.
180 parts of iron filings.
45 parts lime.
8 parts common salt,
Vinegar.

Mix all into a paste with the vinegar and let dry thoroughly before heating.
This cement becomes stone hard on heating.

Hello everybody
Because I wanted an oven that heats up very quickly I was planning to construct a steel oven, but it turned to be rather expensive. One thought came to me. If I mix iron filings with Portland cement (I can't find fireproof cement) and lime is not it reasonable that the iron filings will make my homemade brew heat up quickly? (I'll make a mold for the oven and pour the mix in it)
If yes could any body give me the correct proportions?
Cheers

[jonlovepizza]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

i got my weed spray working so will set it on side of saw wen cutting rest of my fire brick , i had the sprayer taped to my 9inch grinder because i was cutting a drive way with it.the other .it worked a treat, had to tape a plastic milk jug to back of grinder because of water getting into vent at back . thank you for your advice

[brickie in oz]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

yes i must get a good dust mask.. i did dry cut about 10 cuts very dusty..

Even with wet cutting you should protect your lungs, the sharp silicon oxide that causes all the problems is still present in the water spray, I have a mate who now has silicosis from wet cutting bricks for a living.

[david s]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

You can make up a system with a small plastic tube, a tap and a tank that will trickle water onto the blade to reduce the dust. Seen it done it"s quite effective.

[jonlovepizza]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

yes i must get a good dust mask.. i did dry cut about 10 cuts very dusty.. and this was around 5 weeks ago . i have not been well since chest infections .sore throat .,also playing with blocks till 11 oclock at night in a sweatshirt might not be to good for me but when stuck in lose track

[dmun]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

i will be dry cutting with my converted wood chopsaw it even has one of them little dust bags on back .no water

For every particle that ends up in that little bag, a hundred will be floating around in the air. I know I sound like a broken record, but when dry cutting always protect your lungs. Not with one of those worthless paper masks, but a real respirator.

[Cheesehead]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

Don't breathe the fumes.

That's pretty good advice for any mix that's baking out...

It's not as simple as the mp of salt (which you might never reach anyways). Combinations of mixtures may melt at lower temperatures... and it might be that the salt melting (what little there is) is a necessary part of the material setting up.

[azpizzanut]

Re: Recipe from an 1893 book.

Hello All,

Salt melts at 801 C. However in the presence of other ingredients that melt at lower temperatures the salt will also melt. Not being a chemist I would have to think that those other ingredients would have to melt near the same as salt to get the desired combined effect.

YouTube has a video of salt being melted within an induction coil. Interesting, sort of.......watching salt melt.

If you try to make this cement then consider the purity of salt used in 1893. Today, table salt may have potassium iodide and magnesium carbonate added. Don't breathe the fumes.

Cheers,