What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculite?

[edjc]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

Griffin greenhouse in Tewksbury mass for vermiculite

[Toomulla]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

Back in the olden days ( 1970s) we used to make foam concrete by adding aluminium powder to concrete to make it foam. Regarding the peanut shells has anyone considered charcoal which is way was used in Aladdin thermos flasks

[edjc]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

In eastern ma see griffin greenhouse supply for vermiculite

[david s]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

In the production of Hebel they use aluminium powder that reacts with the lime to produce hydrogen, which then bubbles through the mix to froth it up. The process is very secretive and access to their factory is really difficult. By the time the product reaches market there is no trace of hydrogen left. I should imagine that foamcrete would be the same. It is the physical properties of the detergent like stuff that creates the foam, the bubbles are filled with air and only a minuscule amount of the concentrate is required. The concentrate makes 1000 times its volume and is itself 75% water. Check the foamcrete thread, the chemical composition of the stuff is there.

I toyed around with using cellulose powder in place of cement to make vermicrete, but gave up as it's not economical.Also discovered in researching this stuff that it is widely used in foods. They add the stuff to grated cheese to prevent it from clumping when frozen.It is basically wood fibres.

[stonecutter]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

Interesting idea. My concern with using foam concrete as insulation would be off-gassing of the chemicals especially in an area under the floor. I would think that would happen even more rapidly during oven use too.

[david s]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

Gudday Davids
You right there.... But in your climate just as mine it just would not work.
Regards Dave

It works fine, but you need to keep it dry.Ok for dome insulation.But I wouldn't use it under the floor.

[david s]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

[QUOTE
I've tried, nobody in the US will even consider selling me the stuff without selling me a machine first. I'd really like to see what I can do with it.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I've been through all that too. Tell the sellers that you already have a foam generator. Making your own foam generator is quite simple. Look at the foamcrete thread and you will see how I built mine. It is quite efficient and cheap to make.

[shuboyje]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

How about using Expanded clay aggregate. They are a good alternative. On some of the build video's by Italian masters I have seen them use it and here I have a "wood fired oven shop" that also swears by them.

Like most insulators used in Europe they are poor insulators. Put it in a category with Tuff, sand and grog.

Yeah, that was me, I use foam all the time. Seems no one else has followed suit with the idea. It's a better insulator than vermicrete and cheaper too. I use it 50/50 with vermicrete now.

/Users/davespizzaovens/Downloads/foam-concrete-18447.html

I've tried, nobody in the US will even consider selling me the stuff without selling me a machine first. I'd really like to see what I can do with it.

[nachtwacht]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

Thanks for posting that document David. Had not seen it before. Interesting way of testing it on the hotplate. Would be intresting to test more materials that way like airated concrete, superwool, calsil etc. I know by the isolation value's that calsil board is one of the best insulators, but it never tells me if it would be worth the price compared to super cheap airated concrete or the probably even cheaper airated concrete you are making.

[TropicalCoasting]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

To make insulated bricks didnt they use sawdust in the mix and it burns away leaving air pockets?

or

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3529/3796350701_37e3e7a24e_m.jpg

[cobblerdave]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

It still takes tons of fossil fuel energy to heat perlite, vermiculite or expanded clay to the temperatures required in the processing.Straw with just enough slip (liquid clay mixture) is still probably the most sustainable solution.

Gudday Davids
You right there.... But in your climate just as mine it just would not work.
Regards Dave

[david s]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

Gudday
The materials for making pearlite, vermiculite , ceramic board are non renewable resources. It certainly has a place
Regards dave

It still takes tons of fossil fuel energy to heat perlite, vermiculite or expanded clay to the temperatures required in the processing.Straw with just enough slip (liquid clay mixture) is still probably the most sustainable solution.

[cobblerdave]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

Lightweight expanded clay aggregate (LECA) is great stuff. I have recently started using some for certan applications. It is way denser and therefore presumably less insulating than perlite or vermiculite. It is however much stronger, so if you are after an insulator that has more strength then this is great stuff. It's also about double the price of perlite or vermiculite, for me at least, so this is another consideration.

Gudday
The materials for making pearlite, vermiculite , ceramic board are non renewable resources. It certainly has a place
Regards dave

[david s]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

In the old times people also used straw so in a way it will work. It will not work as good as vermiculite though. One of the key things to the insulational properties is not just air, but as small air pockets as possible. The smaller the air pockets, the better. If they peanuts burn away, you will have big air pockets.

How about using Expanded clay aggregate. They are a good alternative. On some of the build video's by Italian masters I have seen them use it and here I have a "wood fired oven shop" that also swears by them.

Lightweight expanded clay aggregate (LECA) is great stuff. I have recently started using some for certan applications. It is way denser and therefore presumably less insulating than perlite or vermiculite. It is however much stronger, so if you are after an insulator that has more strength then this is great stuff. It's also about double the price of perlite or vermiculite, for me at least, so this is another consideration.

[cobblerdave]

Re: What about using starch based packing peanuts for insulation instead of vermiculi

Why did you float it in water?
If anything the water would be in contact for a very short time if mixed in a slurry with cement, cement starts the setting process almost straight from the start.

Gudday
Pearlite,vermiculite,pumice,ceramic fibre board etc have a glass like structure. Doesn't melt in water. The tiny air bubbles are left intact.
If the water effect those tiny air bubbles the effectiveness of the insulation degrades
Regards dave