Homebrew question..

[Johno4]

Thats pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. Although quickrete would not give me an straight answer on if it was portland and lime, they did say it is an equivalent and can be used the same as portland and lime. It is a little annoying that they cant simply tell you what is in what they expect you to buy. Oh well, I can mix my own when the time comes. I am hoping to start my build in a month or so when the weather here breaks.

John

[Gulf]

Hi Johno4,

Sorry for the late reply. I'm glad that you found the hydrated lime. In answer to your op: In most cases the answer is no. Type-N masonry cement can't always be substituted for the Porland cement and lime. Although, the original recipe for Type-N masonry cement is 50% Portland and 50% hydrated lime, the manufacturers are allowed to substitute the lime with "the equivalent". That usually means some lime, some crushed limestone, and other proprietary additives. There are still a few small companies that make it from the original recipe but, very few. The old brick layers that preferred it (due to it's workability) have about all died out. The current generation of brick layers prefer the altered recipe because it is much less corrosive to the skin.

When I was a young brick layer's helper for my uncle, we would sometimes use premixed Type-N and at other times make it from scratch. I did not fully understand it at the time. Along with other brick jobs, we built fireplace boxes and brick BBQ's. We would sometimes go back and do repairs on old fireboxes. That usually meant just repointing the joints on a 30 year old fire box. The mortar would erode over time, but the firebrick would generally be in good shape. A 30 year old firebox today that was layed with the modern mortar will have substantial brick damage. Imo, the crushed limestone will swell when heated causing the faces to pop off the firebrick

When I first joined the forum, I would have told you that you could use any Type-N masonry cement to replace the Portland/Lime parts of the "home brew". Then, Tscarborough schooled me on modern masonry mortars.So, here I am, passing on the information that I have learned on the forum. I wanted to reply to this just in case someone else researches this question.

[Chach]

The local lime I finally found was $11 and change. I ended up getting fire clay from the ceramics store, $17 for 50lbs. $50 for 50 lbs seems high for clay

I thought so to I found it at a ceramic store for $15.85 for 50lbs

[Johno4]

I did get hydrated lime. It is from a building supply company.

[wotavidone]

Just make sure it's hydrated, slaked or burnt lime, not agricultural/garden lime.
I'm glad you didn't get the Qikrete. The SDS says the lime is limestone. Wrong lime for our purpose.

It amazes me how much trouble it is to find hydrated lime in some parts of the world.
I live in a little town of 14,000 people and I can think of three places off the top of my head that sell it.
Can't get fire bricks, fire clay, or ciment fondu for love or money but, hey, lime is easy. And cheap. About 50c Australian per pound.
Perhaps it's because I only live about 1 1/2 hours from the Limestone Coast.

[Johno4]

The local lime I finally found was $11 and change. I ended up getting fire clay from the ceramics store, $17 for 50lbs. $50 for 50 lbs seems high for clay

[Chach]

I just priced powdered fire clay and its $65 for 50lb bag at a supply house near me...was figuring it would be cheaper.

[Chach]

That's really odd. Every masonry supply place I've been to around Boston has it. (I would not expect home depot, lowes or similar to have it) If worst comes to worst, try Amazon. Free delivery with prime.

https://www.amazon.com/Mutual-Indust...ag=googhydr-20

My Home Depot carries it. I looked up yours in NY and they don't. Guess there are areas that have more demand for it than others.

[rwiegand]

Glad you found some locally. I haven't bought any in a very long time, but I expect a dollar a pound is wicked expensive, as you might expect for shipping a heavy product across the country for two day delivery. The Heatstop 50 I used was $50-60 a bag-- pricey, but easy for mixing up many small batches of mortar. I used about 2-1/2 bags for my 42" oven. Compared to everything else involved in the project it was relatively cheap.

Look forward to your build!

[Johno4]

Ok, found some locally! When I get my build going I will start a build thread. Thanks again!

[Johno4]

Thanks rwiegand, yes odd indeed. Just out of curiosity, is that around the price I should expect to pay if I find it locally as well? Just trying gauge cost. Again, thanks for the help.

[rwiegand]

That's really odd. Every masonry supply place I've been to around Boston has it. (I would not expect home depot, lowes or similar to have it) If worst comes to worst, try Amazon. Free delivery with prime.

https://www.amazon.com/Mutual-Industries-7094-0-0-Western-Hydrated/dp/B00GP8IK26/ref=sr_1_8?hvadid=176966745496&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9001879&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1o3&hvqmt=b&hvrand=15698537426576595854&hvtargid=kwd-75990160&keywords=hydrated+lime&qid=1550190440&s=gateway&sr=8-8&tag=googhydr-20

[Johno4]

Also the closest on the list you provided is roughly an hour one way from me. But again, I do appreciate you trying to help.

[Johno4]

I do appreciate your responses. I agree google shows many local sources, but when I call them, they all say they do not carry it...So I am really struggling to find it for some reason. Why have so many places stopped carrying it?

[UtahBeehiver]

Can't say if premix will work or not. However, a Google search for hydrated lime show a list of dozens of sources.