Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

[Southboom]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

While wating for the vermicrete to fully cure, i have the time to post a more throughout description of the work process, so here goes:

August 2

#1 and #2: Dry fitting, Iron cast door, probably Jugend and from the first half of the last century. Bought from an online auction site.

August 9

#3 Surroundings, you can see the barnum farthest behind the glasshouse

#5 Where it all started, more like a joke at the beginning. But then things got more serious

#6 To the right of the building site, facing to the north.

[Southboom]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Southboom,
I used rockwool boards/bats in direct contact with the exterior of the dome, fiberglass bats in the inside of the of the oven house structure, then vermiculite to fill the cavities. I guess I have about 25cm of rockwool and vermiculite over the dome and no less than 10cm of insulation anywhere around the dome. Under the brick floor I used 2 inches, 5cm, of Calcium Silicate rigid insulation.

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/8/sc-chriss-42-wfo-build-7035-11.html

My experience is that the oven holds cooking heat for 3 full days after a soaking pizza burn.

Chris

Chris,
That is really good to hear, and since my dome is 26" i know that it needs even less insulation than a 42" oven. But i will not skimp anyway, cause i live in a cold climate most time of the year. But I will not overdo it either.

Regards
Karl

[Southboom]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Minor update

Did the second and last layer of vermicrete today. This time as suggested by Greenman, i mixed it by hand (with gloves, Nitrile to be exact). Watered with a hoe little by little. Got it more aerated, but still firm. Same 5:1 mixture. Now the overall thickness is about 2 inches, a little more to the back so i just got it leveled. Now i just have to wait, maybe a couple of days. Tomorrow will be rain.

They say that today was the last day of the summer. Never in my life have i experienced a summer this long with temeratures this high for such a long time, i don't think that anybody has in this region, so they say. Everybody seems a bit more contented then usually, an thats not a bad thing. But rain and colder temperatures are on it's way. I'm going to build as much as i can till it get's to cold, i may not have the time to finnish it before the winter, and if so i will postpone the project to the spring.

One positive thing, i think i have all the bricks that i need. I found some special bricks suited for chimnes ("chimne bricks" as they called it) at the diy store.

Do you think these can be used in the "atrium" with the outer arch and flue opening ?

If so, i think i have all the bricks that i need.

#1 and #2: The bricks that's left.

#3 Despite being Friday the 13th today, i had the help from higher powers today. I think i'm gonna print this picture, go and visit the Jehovah's and explain that Jesus is on his way, and maybe sell them the picture for one of their magazines.

[SCChris]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Southboom,
I used rockwool boards/bats in direct contact with the exterior of the dome, fiberglass bats in the inside of the of the oven house structure, then vermiculite to fill the cavities. I guess I have about 25cm of rockwool and vermiculite over the dome and no less than 10cm of insulation anywhere around the dome. Under the brick floor I used 2 inches, 5cm, of Calcium Silicate rigid insulation.

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/8/sc-chriss-42-wfo-build-7035-11.html

My experience is that the oven holds cooking heat for 3 full days after a soaking pizza burn.

Chris

[Southboom]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

With Vermicrete, the more portland cement it contains the less the insulating properties. Also, the more air you can keep in it the better it insulates. Mixing by hand (with a hoe) is the way to keep it aerated.

It is interesting material to work with and on the steep part of the dome it is even more interesting. I used a moveable form to get it to hold in place around the bottom of the dome and once that is in place it gives something to build off. My method ended up being to put it there (around the wire mesh) and leave it alone to go off. The more you play with it the worse things get.

Up towards the top of the dome it is much easier since you have gravity working with you. Just need to remember that the vermicrete layer is not structural and its purpose is to insulate and hold the stucco/render layer so a rough finish is fine.
Are you going to use ceramic fibre under the vermicrete on your dome?

Interesting nature shots. Thanks.

No ceramic fiber, but a Rockwool fire resistant mineral wool made for the industies.

These are the properties: http://guide.rockwool-rti.se/media/6...x_sl_960sc.pdf

The Product Description translates to:

"Thermal and acoustic insulation of high temperature industrial plants. For example, boilers, furnaces, fire doors and fire chamber"

And it's one inch thick with a wire mesh on it. There will probably be some leftovers when im done with the first layer, and i will put a second layer higher up on the dome where i have more space for it.

The movable form sounds like a really good plan. Will be done in a flash at work. Carpenter is obviously the wrong name for my profession. I'm evidently a cabinet maker.

Gudday
Don't skimp on the insulation!
Make the oven an inch smaller to give you an extra inch of insulation.
I would myself even cut every brick down by an inch and give me a thinner dome just for that inch of insulation.
As you said using less Portland in the final pearlite/ cement mix will help with its insulation value.
I've only used pearlite/ cement once on someone else's oven. It's a task!
Basically what worked was grabbing handfuls and placing around the dome
You can't go to high to quickly as the water will melt the stuff underneath and it will slump so its a job of patience and you have to walk away sometimes and let it set.
Regards dave

After discussions with my father, he too is convinced that more insulation is the right way to go.

So now the word "skimp" is dispatched to the past.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Gudday
Don't skimp on the insulation!
Make the oven an inch smaller to give you an extra inch of insulation.
I would myself even cut every brick down by an inch and give me a thinner dome just for that inch of insulation.
As you said using less Portland in the final pearlite/ cement mix will help with its insulation value.
I've only used pearlite/ cement once on someone else's oven. It's a task!
Basically what worked was grabbing handfuls and placing around the dome
You can't go to high to quickly as the water will melt the stuff underneath and it will slump so its a job of patience and you have to walk away sometimes and let it set.
Regards dave

[Greenman]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

With Vermicrete, the more portland cement it contains the less the insulating properties. Also, the more air you can keep in it the better it insulates. Mixing by hand (with a hoe) is the way to keep it aerated.

It is interesting material to work with and on the steep part of the dome it is even more interesting. I used a moveable form to get it to hold in place around the bottom of the dome and once that is in place it gives something to build off. My method ended up being to put it there (around the wire mesh) and leave it alone to go off. The more you play with it the worse things get.

Up towards the top of the dome it is much easier since you have gravity working with you. Just need to remember that the vermicrete layer is not structural and its purpose is to insulate and hold the stucco/render layer so a rough finish is fine.
Are you going to use ceramic fibre under the vermicrete on your dome?

Interesting nature shots. Thanks.

[Southboom]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Minor update of progression.

I have poured a first layer of vermicrete, about an inch. Will let it cure for 2 days before pouring the other one, and then let that cure for maybe 3 or four days. It al depends on the weather now.
When I rode home on my bike tonight, the fog was dense. The yellow light from the lampposts gave a clear indication of this. There is a lot of humidity in the air. The leaves and grass was covered with a thin layer of dew.

I guess that the good thing about this is that the cement will cure slower, and without any plastics wrapped around it.

Just checked in on the weather forecast site, it said:
Humidity 95%

The bad thing is that it may take extra time, and that the construction will be postponed a few days. Rain is also expected.

Also it's the dog days of summer here. There are fruit flies here and there, even at the grocery store.

I'll post a picture of the progress today.
And as a bonus, because I know you like it some pictures from an excursion I made after work. In another nature reserve, and just because you are so damn nice

Note: Vermicrete was really fun to work with. But i know it's gonna be a lot more difficult on the dome. First i dried mixed it and progressively poured water in it, and used a beater for the drilling machine. 1 part water on every 3 vermiculite mixed with cement. 5:1 mixture, Set very nice and firmly.

I read that someone managed to do a 12:1 mixture on the dome. Is this something that anyone would advise against ?

As I've got my limitations regarding the size of the oven, i was thinking if this would be a better choice if going with less insulation.

The livestock is Highland Cattle.

[Southboom]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

To cobblerdave, deejayoh and Tscarborough. That is some really usefull information, and interessting to. Thanks.

The blade that was mounted when i rented the machine was almost totally worn out, the segments was 1mm or less when i took a closer look. And another rental guy this time, had a closer look at it and i got a new blade. And just like some fashionable young adults, this blade had teeth full of diamonds.

They have an agreement that for every 1mm (0.039 inch) the blade is worn out, it will cost you 500 kronor (75 $). Otherwise they would make a loss, cause the machine cost around 45 $ a day to rent. These blades are quite expensive, and I guess that the quality is subsequently. The blade was hardly worn and there were no additional expenditure for this.

These Rental guys were really nice, i got to keep the machine for one more day, and i could borrow a trailer for free.

Pre-cutting all the brick, unless you CAD it out and measure to the Nth degree will seldom work out right. If you insist, at least leave the last 2 or 3 of each course uncut.

Yes, i have left some bricks uncut. I also have this angle grinder with a dry cutting blade to adjust any imperfections.

This is how I did it:

The bricks are drawn in a cad program, printed in 1:1 scale, cut out, used as an template and then the stones are cut until i've got the angle right with the help of this adjustable rest for the saw, i used a clamp and a piece of wood on the rest to make a stop.

Now i only had this saw for a day, so i had to get everything right. So the measurements were critical. Now i have run out of stones cause when i first planned the dome, these tapered bricks were meant to be cut in half and used all the way to the top. But since i became a member of this site, i have learned a lot of things.

Now i will have to hunt down the last pieces of bricks. And in the meanwhile i will make this extra layer of vermicrete under the oven floor. Just picked up the bag of vermiculite yesterday and bought Portland cement.

What do you think about this, a 1:5 or 1:6 mixture ?

The photos are form Thursday and yesterday.

#1 and #2. New blade

#3 Got a lot of chamotte dust left over, could this be put into something usfull, what do you think ?

#4 They had this really cool steamroller at Ramirent. Unfortunately it wasn't for hire. The model is an 70N advance roller N? 7960, Wallis an Steevens LTD Bashingstroke England.

#5 Tempelates

#6 Put in to use.

[Tscarborough]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Pre-cutting all the brick, unless you CAD it out and measure to the Nth degree will seldom work out right. If you insist, at least leave the last 2 or 3 of each course uncut.

To sharpen a diamond blade, you need to cut the opposite of what you are cutting. If cutting firebrick and it gets dull, you probably have a hard brick/concrete blade. Cut some junk concrete to sharpen it. When the segments are worn out it is obvious as they are also worn down. If the segment is less than 1/4" in height it is toast, buy another.

"Sharpening" a diamond blade means exposing the diamonds to the cutting surface, so the purpose is to remove the matrix the diamonds are set into to expose them.

Blades made for soft materials (which also means abrasive) have a hard matrix, blades made for hard materials have a soft matrix.

[Southboom]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Like, all the time! Whats up with that? Dave and a few others try to keeps things calm, so lets talk ovens, so my friends don't get in trouble. Forstar du?

Yes, hi and welcome Laurentius. You are absolutley right. And i'm sorry if this thread has gone a bit haywire, i haven't exacly been myself for the last month.

Och jag f?rst?r precis vad du menar!
Det skall snackas mycket ugn nu. Specifikt Pizza ugn. Jag har en massa bilder
och en hel del att ber?tta! S? h?ll ut alla.

But today i'm only here to tell you this. Cause i'm all to tired, there has been a lot of cutting all day and all night. i will give you two photos and more explaining tomorrow. Have a good time all of you!

[deejayoh]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Some of the wet blades do run out of diamonds. They have a ring of cutting material that is a few mm thick around the outside, and once it's gone - you need to replace the blade

the ones that look like this:
7" Diamond Blade

[cobblerdave]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

I concur with Jon. Jon has a point here.
And also Al's wingman!

Jon, did you also know that your name becomes Noj backwards ?

Guess what, another setback today. This feeling, all too familiar.
The water cooled saw was nothing but amazing and really beautiful to behold, and offcurse put in to use. I explained what i was gonna cut to the rental guy and everything seemed cannon good, yes cannon good. Whilst i thought the blade looked kind of worn in the rental store, i thought that it will have to do.

When home and put into use, and after ~40 cuts. There was no cutting efficiency anymore. The blank feeling of an blank blade. Daimonds are not forever.

So tomorrow i will go back with a cut brick and talk blades, and Obama.

Gudday

You haven't run out of diamonds you just have to expose some new ones. Cut something like a piece of concrete just lightly and the hard stones will expose a fresh surface ....do it dry too. If you get some sparks that a good sign.
Regards
Dave

[Laurentius]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

As i have mentioned circuses and Obama.

The circus really was in town today, in this little country in the middle of nowhere. What's the odds of that. Some of you may have seen this on the television. Obama is not happy with the Bolsheviks, and Snowden. That's why he went over here instead, to talk free trade and explain why the N.S.A want's to know what kind of food pictures some people post over here.

And i really don't wan't them to know my delight in pink food these days.

This is really good, both for Sweden and mayby the U.S, if they really bother.
Stronger bond is always good. And i like the U.S.A.

The thing with this circus is that it's the biggest heist that ever happend to Sweden, and Stockholm. I haven't been to the City. I know that, if went there i would be put in custody and brutaly beaten, so i stayed in this nice suburb instead. Cause i heard numbers of up to 600 C.I.A agents have been flown over here, at least it was 400.

Now, i'm a bit of the paranoid kind. So i have accused every one, and everyting of beeing agents on various occasions. Cause there must be some of them in the suburbs aswell. It's over here the terrorists live.
50 security car's has also been flown over here. Who do's this guy think he is? I do also want this much wingmans. A private chef, so that no one can poison him, and the coolest of all, a box with a very special button that if pressed will start the WWIII. Allways wanted one of those...
The president's gonna meet the king tomorrow and then fly home. I hope that he has had a pleasant stay and that he will get home unharmed.

And sorry for my off topic

Like, all the time! Whats up with that? Dave and a few others try to keeps things calm, so lets talk ovens, so my friends don't get in trouble. Forstar du?

[Southboom]

Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

And while i'm sorry for the off topic.

I actually have some pictures of the progress of today. I actually managed to cut the first layer in the dome! Befor the blade went all blank on me.
I also had a pleasant visit today The neighboring children had a visit and i think they enjoyd and aproved my oven built so far. Now, they are soon gonna move house But i'm gonna invite them over if i get this oven working.

While i'm not particullary fond of child laboring, i put Gustav in to work just so that i could lie down in the hammock and read a good book. Yes, it was hot in there.

#1. Gustav and Isabelle.

#2. Gustav, more then glad to help, and one of the best stone cutters i have encountered.