Personal Best Pizza

[heliman]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Well I can't help myself ... started another biga this evening...

Bought 2 x 12.5 kg bags of flour so I won't run short of supplies. Looks like a Friday night bake ... plus maybe a Sunday session in the WFO. Rain should have cleared by then...

[heliman]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Wow Dino - I am honoured to have my pizza featured on your laptop by the pool. Thanks so much for that, and for the kind comments too. Much appreciated, and particularly generous coming from a skilled baker like you!

This has certainly been an interesting exercise for me, and spurred me to now look critically at toppings (types/quantities) and most importantly, the tomato sauce. I guess with the focus on the dough in the past, I have neglected this area to some extent.

I have switched to canned Roma tomatoes due to the season being over for the fresh ones (due to start again soon though) and whilst not as good, the convenience offered is great. I should actually remove the seeds with a siev but have been a bit lazy in that regard.

In relation to the anchovy, mushroom, chilli etc pizza - yes it had a tomato sauce base. I limit quantities to one scoop of a large stainless steel serving spoon so at not to over sauce it. I then spread it over the base in a circular motion, leaving the base still visible underneath.

The starter is a just a new batch of flour, water and a miniscule amount of yeast all mixed together at 60% hydration and allowed to bench proof for about 1 - 1.5 hrs. Into the fridge for 24 hrs after that. I chop it up with a dough knife to facilitate it being incorporated into the main mix. When making the main batch I add the water, flour, salt, olive oil and biga together, mix for a few mins and then hydrate for 20 mins. I machine knead for 5 mins and then do another few minutes of kneading on the bench. The inclusion of the olive oil of course means that I am deviating from the authentic Neapolitan recipe, but I decided to pursue a product that I actually prefer, over slavishly following a predetermined recipe that is not exactly how I and others like it.

This decision was made after my visit to Da Michele a few weeks ago. Whilst their pizza was fantastic I reasoned that if I am deviating on the topping (according to my and other's personal taste), then it is not authentic anyhow so I may just throw away the rule book and pursue a product that my guests and I enjoy. That, hopefully, is what I have done. My wife incidentally was of the same view and echoed my sentiment on the Da Michele and the many other pizzas that we sampled in Italy. She is quite fussy about pizzas too so her input was certainly helpful in deciding on which path to follow.

For Aussie pizzaiolos, I am using Allied Mills Superb Baker's flour - a great, well-priced, locally available product that is perfect for pizza. Definitely worth trying if you haven't already done so. Variety Foods in Bayswater is the local Perth supplier (no I don't work for them!!!!!). ;-)

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Rossco, these sets of pizzas are amazing! The last pic is a perfect amount of toppings and your crust is beautiful.

On your 1st post, the mushroom/anchovy/caper/chili; isn't there a tomato base on there? I see red. I've got a big summer pizza party next month and this sounds good and different for me.

Also, when you prepare or make the biga for it's 1st 24hr, do you just use your sour dough starter and make it thicker with flour thereby making it a biga (as opposed to a poolish or just plain SD starter) or is the biga just flour, water and the very small amount of IDY and there is no other natural levain in there?

We were having such a good time in the pool last night looking at your pizza pic and really enjoyed this thread of yours. That's your pizza in my yard,
Thanks, Dino

[heliman]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

...Update ...

This just keeps getting better ... and tonight ... this seems like the elusive "sweet spot" has been reached. I don't think that I can top this evening's dough, and don't think that I want to! It was silky, malleable, didn't have andy thin spots, cooked evenly with good spring and it had a subtle sweetness. Perfecto!!

So, 24 hr biga and 24 hour cold fermentation for final dough. Left on the bench for 1.5 hrs to warm up prior to baking.

One thing that I am looking at now is the tomato sauce. I used canned tomatoes this evening, drained and simmered for about 30 mins to reduce and remove excess water. Made a big difference to the moisture level on the top of the base. Also, I kept toppings to a minimum, making for an all round very tasty pizza. All that is left now is to try this recipe in the WFO. Maybe this weekend it will happen...

[texassourdough]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Hi Rossco!

The comments are my pleasure. Sourdough and pizza are like a puzzle and we are all trying to find the right solution - for ourselves.

The owner of my local pizza place of note prefers his "one shot" IDY dough between day 1 and day 2. I don't know how much yeast he puts in - probably .2 or .3 percent. By day 3 the dough is losing strength. I agree with his assessment and can usually tell the age of his dough when I eat there. (His dough is REALLY consistent so the only variable is age!) (First day dough is a little denser and less flavorful, second day a bit lighter and more flavorful, third day is lighter yet but the flavor is muddied.

With the biga you can probably go three days if you want to but it will probably start losing strength and you probably won't be improving your flavor after that.

Look forward to your experiment!
Jay

[heliman]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Hello Jay,

I initially went with the prescribed IDY yeast % in the FB recipe, which now, on reflection seems a bit high, and likely the cause of so many of my early failed attempts.

Your suggestion of a 48 hour biga proofing sounds good - and certainly consistent with something I saw on TV the other day where the guy spoke of a 48 hour "levieto madre" (sp?) in preparing his pizzas. The Italian guy had his own pizzeria and seemed to know what he was doing.

This breakthrough has really fired me up to make more and more pizzas, though I continue to want to experiment so I will start a 48 proofed starter this evening in anticipation of a bake-off this weekend. This is moving toward the perfection that I have been chasing for so long, but which had hitherto eluded me.

Thanks for the continued comments Jay - and please keep them coming. Your combination of science and practical understanding is very valuable to both myself and indeed this group, making you one of the most valuable contributors in this forum!

[texassourdough]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Hi Rossco!

What was your percent yeast before you cut back? Norm is around .5% of the flour weight for retarded dough (one shot). As I seem to recall you were somewhat higher - which as you acknowledge gave you airy dough --- but too airy. (and too overproofed)

I have a feeling you have "gone too far" (which is purely a value judgment and thereby somewhat moot). I think you will find letting the biga go for two days or bumping the yeast to .2 % will give you more oven spring if you want it without causing any problems. Running through the yeast levels, doubling times, etc. leads me to think you are pretty heavily underproofed (from conventional standards...)

I look forward to hearing how they do on the bench...for that will tell me more about the errors in my above observation!

Hang in there!
Jay

[heliman]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Hello Jay ...

Just checked on the four balls that are proofing and they have retained their texture nicely. In contrast, in the old days they would have been puffed and airy by this stage - a situation which got worse when I placed them on the bench to warm up prior to baking.

[texassourdough]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Hi Rossco!

Ahhh....I was going to suggest trying a second retard - later - That explains a lot. With the second retard following the balling the IDY will work in the fridge and proofing will be reasonably close. I have done similarly with SD but can't retard much for my SD basically stops in the fridge.

Look forward to your results!
Jay

[heliman]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Hi Jay ...

Sorry, forgot to mention that after 1 hr proofing on the bench I placed the balled doughs into the fridge. Will proof for 24 hrs and bake tomorrow night.

[texassourdough]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Hi Rossco...

For now, keep doing what you are doing... but pay attention to the change in the dough over time as you bake pizzas. With the low inoculation of IDY I think you could might benefit from more proofing time. Reading your message I think you are proofing for 2 1/2 hours after mixing the biga. That feels short given your low IDY in the biga. I would think your second or third pizza would be likely to be better than your first. (lighter, better texture). Especially if you can wait a half hour to hour between pizzas so you can really see the difference.

Bake On!
Jay

[heliman]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Hello Jay...

Interesting science!!

Definitely think I was overdoing it on the IDY in the early days which caused those light an puffy pizzas.

Well tonight I made the next batch of dough and again it turned out very well. It seemed a bit more fluid and softer and silkier than before - despite making it according to a Baker's percentage based recipe.

The dough almost looked like it could be used right away - but of course it was not properly fermented as the biga had only been added about 90 mins before and allowed to rest for 60 mins thereafter.

Tomorrow is the next bake off ....

[texassourdough]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Hi Rossco!

There is nothing I can think of that is bad about extending the dough development process other than convenience and the need to plan further ahead (well, up to 2 or 3 days). Flavor is definitely better. And starting with reduced IDY will tend to give you an extended development period with more enzyme action (relative to yeast). I have to think there is more to this than you allude, however. With high IDY you may well have been overproofed and big bubbles are consistent with wet, overproofed dough. I suspect the lower IDY has you baking earlier in the proof cycle which is probably more important to thin spots than the biga. The silkiness tends to be associated with proper development and time so the retard can be expected to help with that.

And you are right... pizza and bread don't benefit from being rushed. But I would add, pizza IS bread! The better one understands bread, the easier pizza seems to get.

Bake on!
Jay

[heliman]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

Doing a post-mortem on my process, one thing that I have realised is that to get a really smooth, silky dough that doesn't have thin spots, you have to use a starter. The IDY I think is just too powerful and large bubbles develop (and keep developing) in the dough which leads to problems.

For a batch of dough to make 4 pizzas I use about .1g IDY in the starter which is miniscule but nonetheless gives me a perfect base in terms of rise and texture. It is a bit more effort to start the day before but in my view well worth it. Like bread, it can't be hurried...

[BrianShaw]

Re: Personal Best Pizza

That's a beautiful pie!