Question - proper mixing order

[sssmasi]

Hey guys,

just a question... when you are mixing your ingredients in your mixers (heavens forbid a kitchen aid... as I found out they are... lets say "disliked" in this community) what order do you put the ingredients in?

1. Water 2. Salt. 3. Yeast 4. touch of oil (i think dough needs it) 5. Flour?

Also... do you just dump it all in there or gradually let it mix by slowly adding bits of flour? I usually do it by hand but I would like to know how mix it using the machine. When mix by hand I do it right on the counter and slowly incorporate the flour into the water-yeast mixture.

Any pointers on how to use my kitchen aid (before it burns out on me) would be greatly appreciated.

[arevalo53anos]

Re: Question - proper mixing order

sssmasi:

All the water, 70% of simmered flour, all the preferment (if used) mix two minutes in first speed, rest by 15 to 30? (autolyse).
After that, the left flour is mixed, then the salt and finally the oil.
Knead by hand in a floured surface until the desired consistency is achieved.
Divide the dough in balls weight and left to rest (refrigerated) by 24 to 72 hs.
Good luck.

Luis

[CanuckJim]

Re: Question - proper mixing order

Luis,

Agreed. That's the same order and procedure I often use with bread doughs. You don't want the salt in direct contact with the yeast or preferment from the very beginning, because neither one responds well to it at first.

Jim

[james]

Re: Question - proper mixing order

I agree with Luis (and Jim) on the autolyse technique. It's easy to do, and improves our dough. Your flour needs a moment (well, 30 mintues) to absorb the moisture before you start to work it.
James

[sssmasi]

Re: Question - proper mixing order

I pulled this from the forno bravo web page (http://www.fornobravo.com/vera_pizza.../VPN_spec.html)

Preparation of the dough:

Blend flour, water, salt and yeast. Pour a liter of water into a mixer, dissolve between the 50 and the 55g of salt, add 10% of the total amount of flour, and then add 3g of hydrated yeast. Start the mixer, and then gradually add 1800 g of flour until you achievement of the desired dough consistency. Combining the ingredients should take 10 minutes.

Next, mix the dough at low speed for 20 minutes, until the dough forms a single ball. To obtain the optimal dough consistency, it is very important to control the quantity of water, such that the flour is able to absorb it all. The mixture should be sticky, soft and elastic to the touch.

The characteristic"merceologiche" of the flour used for "Pizza Napoletana" allow it to absorb from 50 to 55% of its weight in water to reach the optimal "point of pasta." The resulting dough can be individualized by the abilities of the individual pizzaiolo.

The preparation of the dough in the mixer should be done without causing the dough to become warm.

Has anyone tried this technique?

[maver]

Re: Question - proper mixing order

what order do you put the ingredients in?

1. Water 2. Salt. 3. Yeast 4. touch of oil (i think dough needs it) 5. Flour?

Any pointers on how to use my kitchen aid (before it burns out on me) would be greatly appreciated.

I agree with Aravelo - get the water in there first with most of the flour to hydrate, then slowly work in the last of the flour until you have the right consistency. I use a kitchen aid (15 yrs old, no sign of burnout with my household use). You can beat the dough fairly aggresively (and certainly does not need to be for long) when it is overly hydrated before the autolyse. When adding flour after the autolyse I add a little at a time until the dough is sticking to the bottom of the bowl but still comes clean from the sides. If it all balls up there is too much flour.

Last - oil in the dough is for lower temperature pizza making to help with browning. In the higher temperatures of a brick oven it is not used.

[CanuckJim]

Re: Question - proper mixing order

All,

We're dealing with temp here. The dough should not get above 80 F. This will vary according to the friction factor of the mixer you're using. If it approaches max temp in the mixer but still isn't quite right, pull it and finish on the bench by hand. Bang it around to develop the gluten, fine, but don't overheat it. Otherwise, rising will be affected, and you might end up with a tough dough.

Jim

[sssmasi]

Re: Question - proper mixing order

Thanks guys for the help. I've never tried the autolyse technique before and I am ashamed to say that I have never even heard of it. I'm definitely gonna this weekend hopefully I will get good results.

Do you guys use this same recipe/technique for focaccia?

I ordered Peter Reinhart's books The Bread Bakers Apprentice and American Pie of amazon after noticing that his books seem to be praised as the best. Anyone know of any other good pizza books?

[CanuckJim]

Re: Question - proper mixing order

Though it's not only about pizza, you'll probably find Carol Field's The Italian Baker both useful and interesting. She's done other books, of course, but this one is the largest and most complete.

Jim

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: Question - proper mixing order

I am currently using Reinhart's book for both pizza and foccacia with good results.

Drake

[Xabia Jim]

Re: Question - proper mixing order

The boss is using two of Reinharts books, Apprentice, and "Crust and Crumb"

[sssmasi]

Re: Question - proper mixing order

Well I followed all of your advice and got fabulous results. Thanks a lot guys!

edit: i would just like to add (with regards to the flour/cornmeal debate) that, as you can see, there is very little flour on the peel. You do not need that much to make it side effectively and you will not get a "floury" taste on the bottom